Ride Route Calculations

I am doing the ride routes Grand Tour of France in a couple of weeks.

Ive downloaded the routes to my nav, but the distances and times are massively different for each section.

e.g. Day 1. They state its 280 miles, 8.5 hours’ riding…….. On my satnav it states 497 miles 8.5 hours.

Day 2. They state its 260 miles, 7.5 hours riding…….. On my Satnav 455 miles 8hrs 25mins

This is the same for every day, with a massive difference in mileage etc.

Has anyone come across this before?

Is the sat nav showing kilometres??

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matchlessman said:

Is the sat nav showing kilometres??

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

That was my first thought, but no.

I think/hope I've sorted it. In the route preferences for each section it says "fastest route" I changed it to "Curvy roads" and it seems to near enough match the times and mileage now.

This Nav6 is driving me crazy!!!!

Opening post and thread moved from the Travel section

Very possibly the reason you are encountering is: There is a recalculation taking place.

From memory, RiDE's (very good) routes are created in non-Garmin based software software, which enables the magazine to display the routes in popular Googlemaps. This can sometimes create problems. The reason:

RiDE's routes have a start and end point and often some key points (waypoints) in between through which the route must pass. Between these fixed start, end and various waypoints there is, for want of a better word, 'nothing'. Your very good Navigator VI has filled in these gaps of 'nothing' using your device's preferences settings. Yours was set to fastest time, which you then changed to windy roads.

There are several ways to stop this happening but first, what software did you use on your PC to download, then display RiDE's routes and then send the routes to your GPS device? Did you use Garmin's own BaseCamp / Mapsource software or did you use something else?

Wapping said:

Opening post and thread moved from the Travel section

Very possibly the reason you are encountering is: There is a recalculation taking place.

From memory, RiDE's (very good) routes are created in non-Garmin based software software, which enables the magazine to display the routes in popular Googlemaps. This can sometimes create problems. The reason:

RiDE's routes have a start and end point and often some key points (waypoints) in between through which the route must pass. Between these fixed start, end and various waypoints there is, for want of a better word, 'nothing'. Your very good Navigator VI has filled in these gaps of 'nothing' using your device's preferences settings. Yours was set to fastest time, which you then changed to windy roads.

There are several ways to stop this happening but first, what software did you use on your PC to download, then display RiDE's routes and then send the routes to your GPS device? Did you use Garmin's own BaseCamp / Mapsource software or did you use something else?

Click to expand...

I used Basecamp! I tried downloading to my Nav5, same thing happened.

Could Basecamp be the problem?

As Wapping has said the problem lies with the ride routes being built using different software/maps, when loaded into bascamp/mapsource or your nav they will either display as straight lines or be different from the ride route, to get the route as close to the ride route as you can will depend on what settings and preferences (avoidances) you have. Post these up and people will have a better idea of how to help.

No need for the exclamation mark, it was only a question.

I am away and am unable to use the RiDE route / BaseCamp, so having to guess. Here goes:

1. When you downloaded the RiDE route to your PC it maybe came in as a track or with some detail missing.

2. Download the route again to BaseCamp and copy it, preferably changing its colour.

3. Hit recalculate to recalculate the copied route.

4. Compare the downloaded route with your copied route; they should be identical. You can put them both into the same file, which will probably make comparing them easier.

5. If they are not identical, drag the copied route using the shaping tool until it matches the original route exactly. Having the two routes in different colours make this easier. At the same time you can iron out any little glitches where whoever created the RiDE route maybe made a mistake; they can sometimes be found.

6. When you are happy, check that the maps on your device and the preferences settings on your PC and GPS device are the same. You can probably switch all the options off, except for perhaps avoid goat tracks and avoid U-turns. The 'Fastesr time' setting should be fine. Why do this? Having all the settings the same and as many as possible turned off removes other possible conflicts between the route you'd like to ride (as created on your PC) and that possibly offered up by your GPS device.

7. Send the copied route to your Navigator VI.

8. All should then be well.

There are other ways to do this but give the above a try and report back, please.

Wapping said:

No need for the exclamation mark, it was only a question.

I am away and am unable to use the RiDE route / BaseCamp, so having to guess. Here goes:

1. When you downloaded the RiDE route to your PC it maybe came in as a track or with some detail missing.

2. Download the route again to BaseCamp and copy it, preferably changing its colour.

3. Hit recalculate to recalculate the copied route.

4. Compare the downloaded route with your copied route; they should be identical. You can put them both into the same file, which will probably make comparing them easier.

5. If they are not identical, drag the copied route using the shaping tool until it matches the original route exactly. Having the two routes in different colours make this easier. At the same time you can iron out any little glitches where whoever created the RiDE route maybe made a mistake; they can sometimes be found.

6. When you are happy, check that the maps on your device and the preferences settings on your PC and GPS device are the same. You can probably switch all the options off, except for perhaps avoid goat tracks and avoid U-turns. The 'Fastesr time' setting should be fine. Why do this? Having all the settings the same and as many as possible turned off removes other possible conflicts between the route you'd like to ride (as created on your PC) and that possibly offered up by your GPS device.

7. Send the copied route to your Navigator VI.

8. All should then be well.

There are other ways to do this but give the above a try and report back, please.

Click to expand...

There was no offence meant by the Exclamation mark.

I will have a go at this.

I use a mac, I wouldn't imagine that would make any difference.

Many thanks

if you are still struggling here is a link to the garmin friendly files. these will go straight into basecamp and to your nav, its one file but once in basecamp you can send them individually

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dejgig4q2z58bkk/france complete GT.gpx?dl=0

if downloading with a mac the file may have a .txt extension just change this to .gpx.

Sorry gentlemen, I must correct you: all the routes were created on Basecamp.

We do use a GoogleMap based system for small routes that feature in the regular issues, but all the routing for the touring supplements is entirely constructed in Basecamp.

Why is it giving Geezer ludicrous mileages? I have no idea. I have it open on screen at the moment. Day One: 279 miles, 8hrs 17mins.

My immediate suspicion is that you'll - quite understandably - have put Basecamp into bike mode. This is an innocent but fatal mistake: the software makes irrational decisions in bike mode. Put it into generic "driving" mode (car icon on the route panel) and it behaves in a predictable, manageable way and allows a bit of motorway to be included in a route where it's needed; in bike mode, it will get off the motorway at every junction, even if you want some time-saving motorway to eat a few miles.

Also check the route is accurately rendered on the roads without any sections doubling back. This can be caused by disagreements between the map generations: those routes were plotted in 2013. If you're on this year's map, it's possible that it's mis-interpreting some of the point locations and putting them on the wrong sides of dual carriageways (though I'm on the latest map and it's fine). You should be able to see doubled sections, which will show up as darker/thicker bits: zoom in on them and use the black-arrow tool to move any errant waypoints to the correct side of whatever motorway/dual carriageway is causing the problems.

All the routes are constructed with fixed points dividing each day's ride into legs, with shaping points between them. The fixed waypoints are generally cafes, though on some routes they may be points of interest (the first day of the France tour you're looking at, for instance, has a lot of the D-Day beach locations marked as fixed waypoints). But generally, I put in three median waypoints to divide each day's ride into four chunks: start to coffee, coffee to lunch, lunch to afternoon coffee, afternoon coffee to hotel. The waypoints will appear in your "favourites" menu so, if you go astray, you can select one directly from there and ride to it to pick the route back up. Likewise, if you think you need to skip a section, you can select one and ride to it on the fastest-route method - may cut out some of the good roads, but get you back on schedule.

Even when checking the routes - and doing the recalculating stage, as Richard recommends (essential for any downloaded route because of the map-generation issue) – the Navigator will recalculate each route again once you send it to the unit. So if you're having trouble with the relatively point-light routes (day six has six points for a 200-mile day) you may want to edit it before the device-transfer stage, increasing the number of points to keep the route on track. Adding shaping points (drag with the black arrow to force a shaping point) reduces the scope for it to misunderstand where it's supposed to go - and it's when it decides to go off on a different road that you get more miles and also miss the roads you're doing the trip to enjoy. You can add more fixed waypoints if you like but (a) if you ride past a fixed waypoint for whatever reason, then the nav will want to turn round and go back to it (hence we don't use too many of those) and (b) there's a limit of 25 waypoints on a route, but no practical limit to the number of shaping points you can add. The best place to add a shaping point, generally, is just AFTER a junction or turn - as that will ensure the device links junction to junction, keeping you on the roads.

As a final note, I would strongly advise against using the twisty-road setting when following a preplanned route. There is no way of predicting where it will go, but the chances of it following the planned route – which is created with Basecamp basing its decision on the default "fastest" setting - will reduce dramatically the fewer waypoints are used. If there's a stretch of 40 miles between points, the sat nav can decide to go anywhere in that space when it's on the twisty setting. And the nature of this long tour is that on some days there are stretches that are decidedly untwisty - because all touring is a compromise between riding twisty roads (raising mileage, taking time) and getting to the destination without being in the saddle for 14 hours...

If you continue to have problems, email us at the office.

Some good advice from Simon

I would only add that the Bike mode is Basecamp is as good or bad as you make it. All settings are adjustable but certainly in its early editions the bike mode was responsible for some very interesting routeing! If you use Basecamp just make sure the various setting suit your needs.

John

Why is it giving Geezer ludicrous mileages? I have no idea, Simon i am going to make a couple of presumptions here as i do not know the facts.

If the routes have been downloaded from motogoloco would they have not been altered to work with google maps hence the difference in the route.
I presume they have come from motogoloco because parts of that particular route are not on your website to download at the moment.
I can only coment on the routes that i have downloaded from motogoloco and they come out as straight lines that need to be recalculated, doing this with not enough waypoints can cause a route to be different.
I have just downloaded the Ride touring bikes to the harz mountain tour from motogoloco and indeed it has come down as straight lines, a link to the file i downloaded below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh44ubn03e7dmd0/RiDE-Touring-bikes-to-Hartz-Mountains-Day-1.gpx?dl=0

I think you will agree that if that route was created in basecamp its no longer useable without some form of recalculation, so maybe they are being altered or i just picked a file that was not created in basecamp.

In no way do i doubt that what you say about creating your routes with basecamp is true,

Lee, the French routes the OP was having trouble with weren't created on MotoGoLoco. They were created in Basecamp. I know, because I created them. This is a Basecamp issue, pure and simple.

We use two systems for our routes. They are as distinct and unrelated as having two cars for the household, one manual and one automatic: just because the manual has a problem with its clutch, it doesn't mean the behaviour of the automatic is any guide to how to fix it.

MotoGoLoco routes will need recalculating after downloading (as will routes created on Tourstart or other web-based platform) because they present point information, not route information. The skill is to put the points in the correct places so, no matter how the route is recalculated, it follows the correct road. The MyRouteApp website is a little cleverer, as it will generate a "track" as well as a point-based options; the downside is that it gives a vast number of points, but none of them are searchable waypoints.

We are having trouble with the web host for the routes at the moment: they broke all the links for the downloads of traditional GPX files and are repairing them at a snail's pace. So generally the best way for people to get routes is to email us and we send them back. But this doesn't affect his calculation issues either. There will be a setting in Basecamp not lining up, but we're three map editions and a Basecamp update on from when those routes were created.

Simon i was not infering the routes were created on motogoloco but infact created with basecamp, what i was suggesting that if the routes were downloaded from motogoloco and not the ride site there would be a problem, in as much as they will show as straight lines and need recalculating, whereas if i sent you a route or you sent me a route direct from basecamp there would be no straight line issue, yes the route may alter due to our own personel preferences but the route would be a route and not straight lines iyswim.

If what you were saying was true every route that Wapping or myself share on this site would be seen as a straight line route and i know for a fact thats not so, this appears to only occur when other software is involved, i may be wrong but i dont think so.

you say, MotoGoLoco routes will need recalculating after downloading (as will routes created on Tourstart or other web-based platform) because they present point information, and that i agree with but, this is not necessarily the case when sharing routes from basecamp to basecamp. so my argument is that the route changes when its loaded from your basecamp route to motogolocos web site and people then download it, whereas if you sent me the route direct from basecamp it would be perfect providing our maps and preferences were the same, where as downloading from motogoloco would always give you a route that would need recalculating and checking.

Many thanks for the advice Simon.

I changed the basecamp from motorcycle to car. When I imported the routes again, it didn't change the mileage etc.

On each route the default is Faster time. Changed it to Shorter distance, and the mileage and times are near enough the same now.

Some are a little different, but I suppose since the route was done, roads change etc.

e.g. Your calculations on Day 6:- 200 miles 6 hours riding. My Nav says 191 miles 5hr 25 mins riding.

Heres hoping its ok!!!

The Nav VI's car and motorbike default settings are slightly different, as are the shortest time and most direct options. This is before the owner starts to tick or untick any of the options, like avoid motorways, avoid U-turns, avoid goat tracks etc

Whilst it's possible that some of the roads might have changed over the 200 mile journeys, what you are most likely seeing is the difference between the GPS device's ability to calculate (fill in, in other words) the gaps between know points.

For example, if RiDE's route from point A to B went around a town on a ring road, your device when set to 'most direct' might route you through the houses. RiDE's ring road route might be faster but maybe longer in distance, yours maybe shorter in distance but longer by time. If though there was no alternative road or method of calculation between A and B, then your and RiDE's routes would be identical.

It's important to learn how preferences and the difference between car vs motorbike vs on foot settings work. Similarly, it's important to check that the device's take on a route A to B is the same as your expectation as to what direction the route will take. It's far from being always Garmin's fault, when things do not always go quite as the rider expected they should.

Hi Simon W, I've been drawn back to this thread from another thread http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...o-can-I-do-this-instead?p=4768182#post4768182 where a bod has encountered problems when downloading MotoGoLoco routes and then displaying / running them in Garmin software.

Where I think the problem lies is that, whilst RiDE's original routes had been created in Garmin software, they are then somehow being recreated in order to display the routes in Googlemaps or simply in the process of hosting the route on RiDE's website. Somewhere in the recreation - or in the subsequent download and further recreation back into Garmin's BaseCamp or Mapsource software - bits of data seems to be lost. This creates gaps between known fixed points, which the device then fills as best it can based on the owner's preference settings. The filled in gaps sometimes take alternative roads than those originally intended by whoever created the route in the first place. In short, something is happening to alter the routes from the original version RiDE intended the user to take. Does it happen every time? No. Does it happen sometimes? Yes, if reports here are to be believed. Mix in some possible human error, owners' own preference settings / map versions and problems start to occur, for sure.

The only advice I can offer is that people ALWAYS check the version of the route Garmin displays on their device and / or computer against the original and, if necessary, amend their version to match the original. That though requires some knowledge of how to amend routes in BaseCamp or Mapsouce. That being said, amending a route is not as difficult as some might imagine it to be, there being lots of often quite good video tutorials out there showing exactly how (and easily) it can be done. Once learnt, it's then only a short step to owners creating their own routes, though that does require some imagination.