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Thread: IAM training/"making progress"

  1. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I would agree, but to be fair to OP, the fact that your associates are getting F1RSTs only shows you are teaching what the IAM wants/requires, not that it is 'right'.

    from my own observing, I rarely see progress as an issue. Associates make poor progress due to their bad habits. As they gain experience and confidence, they usually make sufficient progress to achieve the standard without issue.
    Well of course im guiding them to the IAM standard, what else would I do ? Surely that's the point is it not ? Its all about making them thinking confident safe riders, not racetrack gods.

  2. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by agfoxx View Post
    Just being devil's advocate.

    What if somebody comes to IAM because they want extra training a) for the sake of training (always good), and b) in order to be safer, in the first place?

    That was certainly my motivation. Travelling safer and quicker was never an attraction for me. I'm prepared to arrive there five minutes later.

    Having said that, I did pass, even if it was, now that I think about it, really borderline. So I must have done something right.
    You can have the training but not take the test if that is what you want.

  3. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    If that is really was most of the training, then it does rather sound like there are issue with how you were advised by your observers.
    To be clear, this was not because they thought these were the most important bits in the entire course, - this was because these were the areas where, they thought, I was lacking most.

    For example, it was clear my observation was fine from the outset, I was looking far enough ahead etc., - but I was not acting on the information available. In my first rides, I did take in the information, and I could talk, quite confidently, about what was happening a long way ahead, but I just ignored the signs and carried on, as if on autopilot.

    This was a habit they wanted to break.

  4. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    Isn't the point of the IAM test about proving that you can ride at a more aggressive pace safely?
    Not the word I would use to describe the advanced system of riding. I'm not even sure I would use "assertive" either. Let's say "confident, safe, smooth" instead

  5. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeyBMW View Post
    Not the word I would use to describe the advanced system of riding. I'm not even sure I would use "assertive" either. Let's say "confident, safe, smooth" instead
    Hear, hear

  6. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeyBMW View Post
    Not the word I would use to describe the advanced system of riding.
    I didn't describe IAM as "aggressive" I decribed it as more aggressive as opposed to a very conservative/cautious approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    can ride at a more aggressive pace safely?
    Last edited by blueranger; 26-06-17 at 11:40. Reason: typo

  7. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by agfoxx View Post
    Good morning,

    Just wanted to share some thoughts on IAM training now that I've done it.

    I'm currently sitting here, questioning the point of it all.

    For me, most of the training was concentrated on "going for gaps" and "making more progress". From the outset, my observer had been telling me that I'm a safe, competent and legal rider, but I lack "sparkle". The examiner who did my test also commented on it - saying that I had displayed "just enough sparkle" to pass the test, and that my "making progress" bit was acceptable, but could have been a lot better.

    Here's the thing, though. Before I started the IAM training, I was riding a lot more conservatively. I was working on the assumption that every single car driver is a maniac who is, at the same time, drunk, looking at his phone, and trying to come up with a clever way of killing me.

    I used to filter a lot more slowly than IAM encourages me to do - because you never know whether a car driver will swerve into your path because he may suddenly feel the need to scratch his knee.
    I used to go round corners on country lanes a lot more slowly - because, even if there is enough of a gap between you and the oncoming tractor, you never know when bits of crap are going to fly off the tractor, and into your visor.
    I used to be a lot more cautious with overtakes - because you never know whether the driver whom you're about to pass in what IAM tells you is an acceptable gap, will suddenly get annoyed at you overtaking him and speed up, putting you into too much proximity with oncoming traffic.

    All of these things have happened to me.

    So I think that by "making progress", as the IAM people call it, I'm actually compromising safety.

    And for what? For getting there two or three minutes earlier?

    Discuss......

    Thanks.
    My thoughts too, the only Advanced Training I would do is with a current/retired Police Class1 rider who has his own training school

    IAM is too variable and all Observers are not the same standard

    ROSPA may be better
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  8. #40
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    With regards to an overtake, you should be looking for a convenient gap with cooperation. Thats what I advise my associates to do.

    Making progress is very subjective and the discussion afterwards is what makes it right or wrong at that time, if you lift your vision and use the information available to decide on what best progress is for that situation.

    Take - use - give as the saying goes.
    Once you know something, you can't not know it

  9. #41
    I really think its all down to the observer as to whether you have a good experience or not with the IAM. I did my course a few years ago, kind of enjoyed it and defo learned a lot when riding with a retired copper. On all our group ride outs, I just told the organiser, that I was riding with Ken (the retired copper). For me, he had all the experience and whenever he told me something, it was always worthwhile.

    Some of the jokers who were observers in the group - were seriously poor riders, and did not have any credibility at all. (I do except some will be good, but not all.)

    Most of the observers I met, just wanted to be a bike cop or something. One observer fell off in a petrol station because he was trying his hardest to put a certain foot down first - he used to wobble all over the place trying to do the right thing.

    As soon as I passed, the group asked me to be an observer, which I think is ridiculous? And I soon declined.

    I say, make sure your with a copper and you will learn a lot.

    Its the same with bike safe - we all turn up, hoping to be assessed by a quality police rider, then you get farmed off with a guy down the road, who only passed his IAM a few months earlier!

    Cheers

  10. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GS_Mad View Post
    One observer fell off in a petrol station because he was trying his hardest to put a certain foot down first - he used to wobble all over the place trying to do the right thing.
    How true! I've had three observers (holiday and sickness intervened), and each of them had a different view on which foot goes down at a set of lights.

    1) Right, because that way you don't have to shift feet to engage gear.
    2) Left, because that way the right foot can be covering the rear brake.
    3) Both, because that's the most stable.

    In the end, I picked the one whose way felt the most comfortable to me.

  11. #43
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    A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

    Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

    Circumstances:

    Clear, sunny, 28c.

    Straight road.
    National speed limit.
    Slight to Moderate descent.
    Normal camber.
    Road condition tarmac/good.
    Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
    Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
    Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
    Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

    Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph.

    From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

    Do you overtake or not?

    PS. Discount the fact that there was a police bike following, please. Just for clarity
    Last edited by MartinS; 26-06-17 at 21:06. Reason: Added weather.

  12. #44
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    If there is enough room, I would start picking them off one by one if I can. Maybe two at a time if there is enough space. Hard to say, without being there.

  13. #45
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    I wouldn't personally
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  14. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

    Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

    Circumstances:

    Straight road.
    National speed limit.
    Slight to Moderate descent.
    Normal camber.
    Road condition tarmac/good.
    Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
    Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
    Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
    Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

    Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph, gaps varying accordingly.

    From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

    Do you overtake or not?
    Doesn't matter whether we think you SHOULD overtake or not, we weren't there only you can make the judgement on whether its safe or not. This is a classic situation where peeps want a yes or no answer and get pissed off that one is not forthcoming. Ride to the conditions !

  15. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy777 View Post
    Doesn't matter whether we think you SHOULD overtake or not, we weren't there only you can make the judgement on whether its safe or not. This is a classic situation where peeps want a yes or no answer and get pissed off that one is not forthcoming. Ride to the conditions !
    I feel there is a yes/no answer to the conditions I posted mate. Not trying to push anyones buttons.

    That aside, I completely agree with riding to the conditions, which is why I posted conditions

  16. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    A lot of different opinions here from a subject that is currently high on my list of priorities. So I'd like to self indulge a little and hopefully generate some focused discussion, if my description is good enough. I am not what could be called an advanced rider, in that I don't have any certificates to prove it. The following is based on my own memory only.

    Here is an overtaking scenario from my recent assessment. For context, I was being assessed by a serving member of the vip/special escort group who has pretty much every police motorcycling certificate under the sun.

    Circumstances:

    Clear, sunny, 28c.

    Straight road.
    National speed limit.
    Slight to Moderate descent.
    Normal camber.
    Road condition tarmac/good.
    Open views with 1m hedgerow to sides.
    Open view of 3 farm tracks at distance. 2 left, 1 right. 2m high hedgerow to within 10m of joining main road.
    Signed crossroads at bottom of descent allowing continuance or turnoff into two singletrack B roads, directly opposite one another. Visibilty into both from top of descent was 50 metres, approx.
    Immediately after crossroads, right hander of apparent 70 degrees masked by 2m high hedgerow.

    Speed 40-45mph, encounter line of traffic ahead. From top of descent can see it is a tractor with a muck spreader on. Line of 12 cars behind. Speed of column fluctuating between 40 and 50mph.

    From top of descent to crossroads is approximately 3/4 of a mile.

    Do you overtake or not?

    PS. Discount the fact that there was a police bike following, please. Just for clarity
    I would not. May I ask what you did and the police officer's view of your decision?

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