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Thread: IAM training/"making progress"

  1. #49
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    Yes but I wasn't there so I cant make a judgement, that's what im getting at. I might take a different view to you as to whether its safe or not but only at the time. Its not black or white.

  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    I would not. May I ask what you did and the police officer's view of your decision?
    Before I do that, I was hoping some IAM trained people would respond. Not to start a shitstorm, but because I personally think its important.

    As I said, it's purely selfish as I'm considering doing some IAM training, but I felt having an actual scenario might also help others evaluate their own riding. I tried to describe it as best I could including all variables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy777 View Post
    Yes but I wasn't there so I cant make a judgement, that's what im getting at. I might take a different view to you as to whether its safe or not but only at the time. Its not black or white.
    I understand sir. But theres a couple of things in my description that make the decision for you, so I was told. The points I've listed are what I discussed with the observer.

    Not looking to hang anyone out to dry, it was just for a bit of fun.

    What details are missing for you to be able to make a judgement call as an advanced rider?

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    Before I do that, I was hoping some IAM trained people would respond. Not to start a shitstorm, but because I personally think its important.

    As I said, it's purely selfish as I'm considering doing some IAM training, but I felt having an actual scenario might also help others evaluate their own riding. I tried to describe it as best I could including all variables.
    Martin, I am an IAM national observer.

  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    I understand sir. But theres a couple of things in my description that make the decision for you, so I was told. The points I've listed are what I discussed with the observer.

    Not looking to hang anyone out to dry, it was just for a bit of fun.

    What details are missing for you to be able to make a judgement call as an advanced rider?
    SIMPLES ! I WASNT THERE ! that's the only detail missing.

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Martin, I am an IAM national observer.
    You were correct Edward. *edit...i should add, correct according to the police observer as my own opinion is irrelevant.

    I decided not to overtake also. I thought I'd "failed" if I'm honest because my first instinct was to overtake car by car. However, I quickly revised that view. The gaps were opening and closing so quickly, that I'd never find a way out in an emergency. Also, it was very close to the speed limit and whilst I dont really care much about a speed limit unless it affects my/someone elses safety (here, it did not), there has to be some sort of risk limit. I didn't fancy barreling past a long line of cars and approaching a junction at 100mph just because the gaps happened to randomly close. I sat back and waited.

    Turns out, I was right. He told me that in an absolute emergency, he would have forced his way into gaps, helped in no small part by blue lights/sirens, but that on a civilian bike of any kind, he would have waited.

    The road/environmental conditions werent really the problem here, the issue was the traffic and its disposition, plus the approaching bend.

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy777 View Post
    SIMPLES ! I WASNT THERE ! that's the only detail missing.
    Fair enough, but I didnt think you needed to be based on my description. I'll work on that.

  8. #56
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    When i did a car equivalent of the bikesafe stuff back in the 80's we went out with the local feds and then Rospa at the end for an assessed drive.

    Rospa's stance was, they do annual assesments, unlike IAM ... Pass once and never again !

    I have to say, the standard of driving from the feds was an an eye opener, (Area traffic car)

    the 100+ run down the Mway on a shout was interesting

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by agfoxx View Post
    Good morning,

    Just wanted to share some thoughts on IAM training now that I've done it.

    I'm currently sitting here, questioning the point of it all.

    For me, most of the training was concentrated on "going for gaps" and "making more progress". From the outset, my observer had been telling me that I'm a safe, competent and legal rider, but I lack "sparkle". The examiner who did my test also commented on it - saying that I had displayed "just enough sparkle" to pass the test, and that my "making progress" bit was acceptable, but could have been a lot better.

    Here's the thing, though. Before I started the IAM training, I was riding a lot more conservatively. I was working on the assumption that every single car driver is a maniac who is, at the same time, drunk, looking at his phone, and trying to come up with a clever way of killing me.

    I used to filter a lot more slowly than IAM encourages me to do - because you never know whether a car driver will swerve into your path because he may suddenly feel the need to scratch his knee.
    I used to go round corners on country lanes a lot more slowly - because, even if there is enough of a gap between you and the oncoming tractor, you never know when bits of crap are going to fly off the tractor, and into your visor.
    I used to be a lot more cautious with overtakes - because you never know whether the driver whom you're about to pass in what IAM tells you is an acceptable gap, will suddenly get annoyed at you overtaking him and speed up, putting you into too much proximity with oncoming traffic.

    All of these things have happened to me.

    So I think that by "making progress", as the IAM people call it, I'm actually compromising safety.

    And for what? For getting there two or three minutes earlier?

    Discuss......

    Thanks.
    The point of it all? Well ...

    1. You are thinking about your riding.
    2. You understand that , at this level of riding, there are no " black and white" answers to these issues only shades of gray.
    3. You are willing to consider advice from various sources and make up your own mind.

    As an IAM observer myself I would agree with comments about variability of standards within the organisation but that is inevitable in any organisation which does not apply para military levels of discipline / expectations. Bear in mind that the guys doing it are doing so as a hobby and are effectively subsidising the organisation. The aim is not to produce Police 1 standards in associates but to improve their riding and especially their safety and that of other road users. Safety is the priority.

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotboxer View Post
    The point of it all? Well ...

    1. You are thinking about your riding.
    2. You understand that , at this level of riding, there are no " black and white" answers to these issues only shades of gray.
    3. You are willing to consider advice from various sources and make up your own mind.

    As an IAM observer myself I would agree with comments about variability of standards within the organisation but that is inevitable in any organisation which does not apply para military levels of discipline / expectations. Bear in mind that the guys doing it are doing so as a hobby and are effectively subsidising the organisation. The aim is not to produce Police 1 standards in associates but to improve their riding and especially their safety and that of other road users. Safety is the priority.
    But I think he's saying that IAM were asking him to do things which he considered less safe, yet for very little benefit?

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa-2512 View Post
    ?.. unlike IAM ... Pass once and never again !
    This is changing and a three yearly re-test option will be available with comensurate discounts on IAM surety insurance as a result of staying current.

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa-2512 View Post
    When i did a car equivalent of the bikesafe stuff back in the 80's we went out with the local feds and then Rospa at the end for an assessed drive.

    Rospa's stance was, they do annual assesments, unlike IAM ... Pass once and never again !

    I have to say, the standard of driving from the feds was an an eye opener, (Area traffic car)

    the 100+ run down the Mway on a shout was interesting
    Not if your a National Observer, its every five years, and if your a Local Observer assessor its every three years, so continual assessment to raise the standard and keep it up. Every rider has the choice about assessment, there is nothing stopping them doing it whenever they like.

  13. #61
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    I'm involved in IAM Roadsmart bike training and also do the Rospa 3 year retest. One point to note is that Rospa appear to have done nothing whatsoever that's visible to members in terms of updating their standards and having consistent markings, whereas IAM Roadsmart have put huge effort into this over the last 18 months.


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  14. #62
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    I pity the poor sod who has to observe me when I get back in the saddle, they'll probably die of boredom, or fail me within 10 minutes so they can dump me and go roaring off at tyre and fuel burning speed in their haste to 'make progress'. I too make progress, at my pace, n my understressed, low revving plodder.....pop, pop, pop....

  15. #63
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    Id say it would depend on the width of the road whislt it may be single lane that can be anything from 6 feet to 10 feet wide.If nearer the later there should be adequate room to stay in lane yet be able to make good progress in overtaking vehicles.
    Caution : May stop suddenly

  16. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by agfoxx View Post


    I used to be a lot more cautious with overtakes - because you never know whether the driver whom you're about to pass in what IAM tells you is an acceptable gap, will suddenly get annoyed at you

    So I think that by "making progress", as the IAM people call it, I'm actually compromising safety.

    And for what? For getting there two or three minutes earlier?

    Discuss......

    Thanks.
    Progress is the PRODUCT of advanced riding, NOT the objective. It is what occurs when a rider has good motorcycle control skills and marries them to good observation and consistently sound decision making. How MUCH progress depends on how skilled they are at this marriage.

    The 'sparkle' referred to is simply a faultless ride in terms of safety, awareness, and application of the principles of roadcraft and which the examiner deems to show some flair.

    I have been on plenty of tests where an otherwise silver or gold rider has gone for an overtake near the end of an excellent demonstration because they felt the need to show they could make progress by overtaking. The pressure to do so spoiled the ride and subsequent grade.

    Don't try and squeeze one in to impress as any examiner worth their salt knows the difference.
    Ploughing on regardless.......

    Campsite Clouseau

    www.warpspeedadvanced.com

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