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Thread: IAM training/"making progress"

  1. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by phooey View Post
    Progress is the PRODUCT of advanced riding, NOT the objective. It is what occurs when a rider has good motorcycle control skills and marries them to good observation and consistently sound decision making. How MUCH progress depends on how skilled they are at this marriage.

    The 'sparkle' referred to is simply a faultless ride in terms of safety, awareness, and application of the principles of roadcraft and which the examiner deems to show some flair.

    I have been on plenty of tests where an otherwise silver or gold rider has gone for an overtake near the end of an excellent demonstration because they felt the need to show they could make progress by overtaking. The pressure to do so spoiled the ride and subsequent grade.

    Don't try and squeeze one in to impress as any examiner worth their salt knows the difference.
    I think you just won the thread.

  2. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by phooey View Post
    Progress is the PRODUCT of advanced riding, NOT the objective. It is what occurs when a rider has good motorcycle control skills and marries them to good observation and consistently sound decision making. How MUCH progress depends on how skilled they are at this marriage.

    The 'sparkle' referred to is simply a faultless ride in terms of safety, awareness, and application of the principles of roadcraft and which the examiner deems to show some flair.

    I have been on plenty of tests where an otherwise silver or gold rider has gone for an overtake near the end of an excellent demonstration because they felt the need to show they could make progress by overtaking. The pressure to do so spoiled the ride and subsequent grade.

    Don't try and squeeze one in to impress as any examiner worth their salt knows the difference.
    I think I was doing a good ride, looked at my clock and mileage realised I hadn't demonstrated a good overtake, did my checks and set off.. toward what turned out to be a blind dip ( couldn't see it when I was checking Into the distance). I wouldn't normally have done it except for knowing I needed to demo one at some point soon..

    Passed but it wasn't elegant and certainly not sparkling !

  3. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe narvey View Post
    I think I was doing a good ride, looked at my clock and mileage realised I hadn't demonstrated a good overtake, did my checks and set off.. toward what turned out to be a blind dip ( couldn't see it when I was checking Into the distance). I wouldn't normally have done it except for knowing I needed to demo one at some point soon..

    Passed but it wasn't elegant and certainly not sparkling !
    I apply a simple rule when weighing up overtakes. I look at it and ask myself am I completely sure I can execute it smoothly, safely and without inconveniencing anyone. If I know - I go. If I have any doubt - I hold back. It is still possible to be surprised !



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  4. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by phooey View Post
    I apply a simple rule when weighing up overtakes. I look at it and ask myself am I completely sure I can execute it smoothly, safely and without inconveniencing anyone. If I know - I go. If I have any doubt - I hold back. It is still possible to be surprised !



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    Precisely, but I thought I could see the bottom of the dip and set off ..

  5. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by phooey View Post
    I apply a simple rule when weighing up overtakes. I look at it and ask myself am I completely sure I can execute it smoothly, safely and without inconveniencing anyone. If I know - I go. If I have any doubt - I hold back. It is still possible to be surprised !
    Always remembering that the candidate's ability to assess a hazard is the major thing we're testing.

    We've all been behind candidates that have had repeated blindingly obvious opportunities to overtake and not taken them - in the debrief they are unable to articulate why they didn't go. This just means they need more work before they are ready for test. I've passed plenty of people who didn't overtake anything - but they must have always been looking for the overtakes and been frustrated by view, oncoming traffic or some other reason...
    We will never be here again - have a good look around

  6. #70
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    IAM training/"making progress"

    Why is riding a bike all about overtaking??

    Why should be 'looking' for overtakes all the time ???
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  7. #71
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    Have you not been listening.

    1. overtaking is one of the ingredients of being an excellent all round rider.
    2. That skill has to be learnt and tested.
    3. You dont have to do it when not training or being tested.
    4. You cant be a highly trained motorcyclist and not be capable of overtaking
    5. end of

    My qualification- retired triple class one police
    Brian

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  8. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldrat View Post
    Have you not been listening.

    1. overtaking is one of the ingredients of being an excellent all round rider.

    4. You cant be a highly trained motorcyclist and not be capable of overtaking


    My qualification- retired triple class one police
    Why is overtaking and 'making progress' paramount to being a safe and highly trained rider??
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  9. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Why is overtaking and 'making progress' paramount to being a safe and highly trained rider??
    If you think that it's appropriate to be a "highly trained rider", who cannot overtake, nor make use some speed when safe and legal, then clearly that is your call.

    You can do the IAM, and I'm sure you will learn a lot.

    Without some evidence that you can make reasonable progress (when safe and legal), you probably shouldn't do the test.

    I don't recall anyone with IAM experience saying that 'making progress' is paramount, but it is a part, and like any qualifications you can't chose to opt out of those parts that don't suit you.

    Personally I got back involved in the IAM after attending a ride organised right here on this forum. Only one rider crashed, and I view that statistic as unduly positive given the idiotic and dangerous riding I saw. So personally I'll stick to the IAM.

  10. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Why is overtaking and 'making progress' paramount to being a safe and highly trained rider??
    Where did Oldrat mention 'paramount'?

  11. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Where did Oldrat mention 'paramount'?
    Thank you
    Yet again he is reading too much into this. Paramount - no. Necessary requirement - yes
    Brian

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  12. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldrat View Post
    Have you not been listening.

    1. overtaking is one of the ingredients of being an excellent all round rider.
    2. That skill has to be learnt and tested.
    3. You dont have to do it when not training or being tested.
    4. You cant be a highly trained motorcyclist and not be capable of overtaking
    5. end of

    My qualification- retired triple class one police
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Why is overtaking and 'making progress' paramount/important/necessary/useful* to being a safe and highly trained rider??
    *Delete as appropriate

    Answer my earlier question, please


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldrat View Post
    Thank you
    Yet again he is reading too much into this. Paramount - no. Necessary requirement - yes
    Ok, why is it a necessary requirement?

    Just because i'm riding a bike, why do I have to overtake?

    Why not sit there at 50 ish mph, on a NSL A road, at a safe distance behind the car in front (within my braking distance) and just enjoy the views, whilst taking note of any hazards ....................that may come along, from the side/front/rear

    What is the necessary requirement/reason to overtake the car?

    All the advanced riding I have undertaken is fixated with 'making progress' and overtaking everything in front of your bike, albeit safely

    Why?
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  13. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Ok, why is it a necessary requirement?

    Just because i'm riding a bike, why do I have to overtake?
    FSS - you don't have to overtake. As I tell every associate I go out with - "ride your own ride". you make the decissions

    Do whatever the F* you want. You won't pass an IAM advance test, but this shouldn't be an issue as you don't agree with the standards that IAM, RoSPA and the police use.

  14. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    FSS - you don't have to overtake. As I tell every associate I go out with - "ride your own ride". you make the decissions

    Do whatever the F* you want. You won't pass an IAM advance test, but this shouldn't be an issue as you don't agree with the standards that IAM, RoSPA and the police use.
    I do agree, in fact
    JohnnyBoxer



    So many roads...........So little time......

  15. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    I do agree, in fact


    and for the record I will also do what the F** I want too


  16. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldrat View Post
    Have you not been listening.

    1. overtaking is one of the ingredients of being an excellent all round rider.
    LETS HAVE ANOTHER GO.


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBoxer View Post
    Answer my earlier question, please
    Ok, why is it a necessary requirement?

    SEE 1 ABOVE

    Just because i'm riding a bike, why do I have to overtake?

    HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY DRIVE ANY VEHICLE WITHOUT EVER EVER PASSING ANOTHER

    Why not sit there at 50 ish mph, on a NSL A road, at a safe distance behind the car in front (within my braking distance) and just enjoy the views, whilst taking note of any hazards ....................that may come along, from the side/front/rear

    What is the necessary requirement/reason to overtake the car?

    ABSOLUTELY NONE

    All the advanced riding I have undertaken is fixated with 'making progress' and overtaking everything in front of your bike, albeit safely

    Why?
    Now we can talk about Advanced driving/riding and being fixated on things....thats another debate with which I have some sympathy.



    I hope that helps.
    Brian

    GSA Triple Black
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    You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

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