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Thread: IAM training/"making progress"

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotboxer View Post
    Re Police Scotland and offsiding. First, I think the mini roundabout example.given by Tractors may be a bit confusing. A better example might be adopting a position on the other carriageway to maximise view or straighten a series of bends. I think the reason for the advice is largely "political" and to do with the fact that Scotland is inundated every year with fly drive tourists and bikers from abroad. Consequently, there are fatalities every year from "wrong side" errors plus native bikers who "offside" and get it badly wrong. For PS to endorse a practice which might make matters worse is simply a non starter and since IAM examiner cadre is still dominated by Police or ex Police, there you have it. You can argue all you like about "thinking riders" but the buck has to stop somewhere and PS have ensured that no one can lay it at their door. I always give the IAM / PS line to associates after explaining as above and make the point that unless they are 100% certain the road is clear, the benefits of offsiding are far outweighed by the potential cost. We are not cats after all ...
    I read these comments re 'off siding' etc with interest, I'm not an IAM observer or examiner so I only have my personal opinion, but when I ride, curves are what I enjoy so why straighten them? Yes if I really needed to make progress and get from A to B in as short a timeframe as possible, i.e. emergency services, but as a leisure rider, unless it's wet etc and straight lining makes it safer why not just enjoy the curves. I ride over Hartside regularly and sometimes follow other bikes off the top heading towards Penrith and see them straighten out the bends, I'm making just as much progress following three curves but I bet I enjoy my ride more than they do.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefformston View Post
    I read these comments re 'off siding' etc with interest, I'm not an IAM observer or examiner so I only have my personal opinion, but when I ride, curves are what I enjoy so why straighten them? Yes if I really needed to make progress and get from A to B in as short a timeframe as possible, i.e. emergency services, but as a leisure rider, unless it's wet etc and straight lining makes it safer why not just enjoy the curves. I ride over Hartside regularly and sometimes follow other bikes off the top heading towards Penrith and see them straighten out the bends, I'm making just as much progress following three curves but I bet I enjoy my ride more than they do.
    Because, a vehicle is at its most stable, upright, travelling in a straightline and with light acceleration, if you came upon diesel on a bend would you prefer to be cranked over or upright ?

    We all "link" bends to a degree, planning for being in the correct position for the righthander after the left.

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  3. #163
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    Totally agree, although as you say there are circs when straightening out a series of bends by offsiding can be safe and make sense. I think the practice (like the Hendon Shuffle) may be rooted in the past when IAM examiners were mostly / exclusively ex Polis and subject to the same training regime and principles. Making progress for a civvy under nsl conditions is one thing. It's a whole new ball game for a Police class one rider/ driver under blue light conditions. If there was a surge in "wrong side" accidents down south, things might change as it has up here.

  4. #164
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    I’d be traveling at the appropriate speed to be able to see the road ahead and be able to stop or avoid the hazard. Forward observation.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefformston View Post
    I’d be traveling at the appropriate speed to be able to see the road ahead and be able to stop or avoid the hazard. Forward observation.
    True, but shit still happens.

    And if we are all honest, we don't ride like that most of the time, otherwise there'd be a man with a red flag walking in front of us.

    No such thing as a perfect drive/ride.

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  6. #166
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    Ive seen it described as a bubble of observations around yourself
    Caution : May stop suddenly

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andi_archer View Post
    Ive seen it described as a bubble of observations around yourself
    I explain, my safety bubble and nothing enters it without prior thought.

    It expands and contracts as speed and conditions dictate.

    Flexibility and thinking !

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  8. #168
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    My 2p worth response to the OP now that I'm busy with my IAM observed rides. I probably have to consider myself lucky with the instructor that was allocated to me. Ex-police and instructor and super smooth when you watch him. He does not put too much emphasis on any part of the system or ride and goes with the progress you make offering just snippets of advice to help and improve as you go along. He always mentions the 4 S's (Safe, System, Smooth, Sparkle) and IPGSA and now there is a new acronym for crossing or straight lining bends, SLAP (Safe, Legal, Achieve, Perception).

    So far this has massively improved my vision particularly out of a bend, improved my overtakes, made me ride safer on those single tracks that I like exploring. However, he did comment on the last ride about my lack of making use when I have the space for the overtake. But that is partly because I'm judging the distance to allow us both to progress past the car. He just said don't worry, ride for yourself but don't bugger off in the distance

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanneman View Post

    So far this has massively improved my vision particularly out of a bend, improved my overtakes, made me ride safer on those single tracks that I like exploring. However, he did comment on the last ride about my lack of making use when I have the space for the overtake. But that is partly because I'm judging the distance to allow us both to progress past the car. He just said don't worry, ride for yourself but don't bugger off in the distance
    Good one Josef ... nothing to lose, everything to gain

    Enjoy

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  10. #170
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  11. #171
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    Does, after reading all this, mean that an economical rider cannot pass the tests set out by the various organisations?

    eg. National Speed Limit looms up, but without hindering anyone you stick to 62 - 63mph, because it makes the fuel and tyres and brakes go further? Or is a cost based system where only people prepared to spend more on their fuel etc can pass?

    Acceleration is another point. I describe my riding in that I tend not to accelerate, it tears your tyres to shreds and burns more fuel, I build my speed through the gears more sedately. people have called me a liar for being able to get 15,000 miles out of a rear tyre on the 1150GSA loaded most of the time. That was the best I got (Tourance) but I regularly get 13,000 - 13,500 miles and I have put enough miles on 1150 GSs to be able to say that is an average return for my tyres.

    From what you are all saying, I couldn't pass because I don't 'make sufficient progress' because I am being economical. Smooth riding helps these mileages no end - no need for brakes, just roll in towards a Give Way, timing it with the crossing traffic so as to avoid having to stop, provided you can see. That kind of thing. I get it all the time, guy comes hooning past on the approach to a junction of some sort, and then slams on the anchors and bangs through the gears (the red lights stay lit for hundreds of yards!) to scrub the speed off - or there is a second set of traffic lights 200 yards away and they drop the clutch, go up through several gears and then same thing, slam everything on while they wait for the lights to change.....presumably because they were more intent on beating me away, and hadn't seen the red light ahead.

    maybe I should just be content in my own little 'mobile chicane' world.

  12. #172
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    If you break any speed limit, you will fail. i expect that different examiners will have slightly different tolerance levels but if an associate wilfully places "progress" above safety, they have clearly missed the main purpose of advanced riding and the system. What they do after they have passed their test or when not being observed is up to them.

    Smooth riding? The hallmark of the expert etc ... That's what we should all aspire to!

  13. #173
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    Adventure.GS
    Tours, training or custom made earplugs ... it's all here.

    "If you want the rainbow then you have to put up with a little rain" Dolly Parton

  14. #174
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    There is a bit more to it than just economical riding. Sure it helps but when you take the system, IPGSA, the I is for information. Take information like conditions, obstacles, road signs, behaviour of cars/people, layout and architecture of the road but also to give information to other road users like how you position the bike, the speed you ride at and giving obvious visual signals like indicator and brake light. There are times when a good twist of the throttle comes in handy. A few other things but would be too much of a discussion and out of scope of this thread.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanneman View Post
    My 2p worth response to the OP now that I'm busy with my IAM observed rides. I probably have to consider myself lucky with the instructor that was allocated to me. Ex-police and instructor and super smooth when you watch him. He does not put too much emphasis on any part of the system or ride and goes with the progress you make offering just snippets of advice to help and improve as you go along. He always mentions the 4 S's (Safe, System, Smooth, Sparkle) and IPGSA and now there is a new acronym for crossing or straight lining bends, SLAP (Safe, Legal, Achieve, Perception).

    So far this has massively improved my vision particularly out of a bend, improved my overtakes, made me ride safer on those single tracks that I like exploring. However, he did comment on the last ride about my lack of making use when I have the space for the overtake. But that is partly because I'm judging the distance to allow us both to progress past the car. He just said don't worry, ride for yourself but don't bugger off in the distance

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