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Thread: Yet another dyno comparison

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    Yet another dyno comparison

    I'm taking my 1290 SAS down to Hilltop next Thursday for a remap and dyno run, along with my mate on his 1290 GT.

    I had my previous 1190 done at Hilltop but at the old place on the previous dyno so it won't be an exact comaprison. My 1190 had a Rottweiller air filter, Arrow de cat pipe and Akra fitted whereas the 1290 is standard apart from an Akra. However before the dyno run I'd say the 1290 is no faster on top end then the 1190, in fact the GPS tells me the 1190 was slightly faster on top end. (No doubt Otto will be along soon to laugh at the superior top speed of the 1190). The 1190 speedo was wildly optimistic, whereas the 1290 speedo doesn't tell as many lies and is a lot more accurate according to the same GPS.

    The 1290 murders the standard and remapped 1190 on mid range which is more useful for day to day riding.

    I'll be curious to comapre the ADV to the GT as well. Having owned a GT and ridden my mates, The GT is way over geared as standard, 2 teeth added to the rear sprocket cures that a bit but the ADV still seems to just win the mid range battle but the GT storms away at higher revs and significantly quicker at top end. It's a friggin' rocket.

    My 1190 made 128 bhp and 82 ft/lbs of torque after Geoff's work.

    My 1290 has done 5,000 miles so should have loosened up a bit now.

    BTW, I love the 1290 SAS, brilliant piece of kit.

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    You do realise (I hope) that I'm being very facetious when I talk about the 1190 being quicker/more powerful etc and most of it has just been to wind up Nutty from this site

    Having ridden a few 1290's now I quite agree, the 1290 feels fatter in the mid range and not quite as full on at the top end. I think that may be due to the absence of the 'kick up the arse' the 1190 gives you at 6k which makes it 'feel' faster/quicker compared to the 1290 which just pulls and pulls.................

    Having said that, my 1190 is putting out nearly 20bhp more that your old one (both on Hilltop's old dyno) which sounds a bit weird especially with all the work you did on the intake and exhaust

    Anyway, have fun at Geoff's and it'll be interesting to see the results.

    Andres
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    You do realise (I hope) that I'm being very facetious when I talk about the 1190 being quicker/more powerful etc and most of it has just been to wind up Nutty from this site
    Well that's backfired on you then, as I couldn't care less! I'd have kept the XR if I wanted to be fastest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Nutty GSER View Post
    Well that's backfired on you then, as I couldn't care less! I'd have kept the XR if I wanted to be fastest.


    Andres

    PS The 1190 is actually quicker/up on power compared to the 1290 though.......
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post


    Andres

    PS The 1190 is actually quicker/up on power compared to the 1290 though.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    You do realise (I hope) that I'm being very facetious when I talk about the 1190 being quicker/more powerful etc and most of it has just been to wind up Nutty from this site

    Having ridden a few 1290's now I quite agree, the 1290 feels fatter in the mid range and not quite as full on at the top end. I think that may be due to the absence of the 'kick up the arse' the 1190 gives you at 6k which makes it 'feel' faster/quicker compared to the 1290 which just pulls and pulls.................

    Having said that, my 1190 is putting out nearly 20bhp more that your old one (both on Hilltop's old dyno) which sounds a bit weird especially with all the work you did on the intake and exhaust

    Anyway, have fun at Geoff's and it'll be interesting to see the results.

    Andres
    Having read numerous posts on here, I have realised that there is a lot of banter with no malice intended. Maybe you got a quick one, I wasn't too impressed with my results if I'm honest. having said that the changes I made actually made the fuelling worse than stock until Geoff performed his magic. A mystery as to why yours is knocking out nearly 20 bhp more, no wonder you're happy with it.

    As for the top end of the 1190 vs the 1290, I wonder if Euro 4 has strangled the bike a bit as I saw a dyno chart for an early 1290 Super Adventure, a 2015 model I think which presumably is Euro 3 and it was producing some very good numbers .

    Roll on Thursday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDG View Post
    Having read numerous posts on here, I have realised that there is a lot of banter with no malice intended. Maybe you got a quick one, I wasn't too impressed with my results if I'm honest. having said that the changes I made actually made the fuelling worse than stock until Geoff performed his magic. A mystery as to why yours is knocking out nearly 20 bhp more, no wonder you're happy with it.

    As for the top end of the 1190 vs the 1290, I wonder if Euro 4 has strangled the bike a bit as I saw a dyno chart for an early 1290 Super Adventure, a 2015 model I think which presumably is Euro 3 and it was producing some very good numbers .

    Roll on Thursday.
    Euro 4 has sort of affected things. Bounce (on here) has just got a 2015 Euro 3 1290, and taken it to Hilltop. The bhp figure is slightly higher than my 2017 1290S, but my torque figure is slightly higher. Six of one, and all that. But mine is lighter, so will be faster!

    In the real world, I doubt any of us could tell the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    You do realise (I hope) that I'm being very facetious when I talk about the 1190 being quicker/more powerful etc and most of it has just been to wind up Nutty from this site

    Having ridden a few 1290's now I quite agree, the 1290 feels fatter in the mid range and not quite as full on at the top end. I think that may be due to the absence of the 'kick up the arse' the 1190 gives you at 6k which makes it 'feel' faster/quicker compared to the 1290 which just pulls and pulls.................

    Having said that, my 1190 is putting out nearly 20bhp more that your old one (both on Hilltop's old dyno) which sounds a bit weird especially with all the work you did on the intake and exhaust

    Anyway, have fun at Geoff's and it'll be interesting to see the results.

    Andres


    Andres

    It does occur to me that my 1190 was bought late on in the year and had only done 1100 miles before winter and salt set in. The air filter and decat pipe were done during the winter so immediately after winter it went on the dyno. I'd expected a few more hp with more miles on it as it loosened up, though certainly not another 20.

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    Dyno runs and remapping done today at Hilltop. My 1290S, 5,000 miles with an Akra fitted.

    Before 137.71 hp and 95.72 ft/lbs

    After. 144.68 hp and 99.09 ft/lbs torque

    The big gains are up to 6,000 rpm where torque and power have jumped up, plus before the power peaked at 8,000 then tailed off whereas now it holds its peak power till the rev limiter.

    The real test was the 100 mile ride home and it's smoother, more responsive and pulls like an angry bull from low down. I thought it performed well beforehand but it's noticeably better now.

    As a side issue I had installed Rottweiler O2 eliminator dongles before which smoothed the throttle response. Hilltop wanted those removing and you could tell the difference. After the remap it's back to smooth throttle response again. The O2 eliminator dongles were 40us dollars plus shipping, £20 inc postage if anybody wants them for an 1190 or 1290.

    I'll scan the dyno sheet and post it when I open an account with somebody other than photo bucket now that they charge for posting to websites

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDG View Post
    Dyno runs and remapping done today at Hilltop. My 1290S, 5,000 miles with an Akra fitted.

    Before 137.71 hp and 95.72 ft/lbs

    After. 144.68 hp and 99.09 ft/lbs torque

    The big gains are up to 6,000 rpm where torque and power have jumped up, plus before the power peaked at 8,000 then tailed off whereas now it holds its peak power till the rev limiter.

    The real test was the 100 mile ride home and it's smoother, more responsive and pulls like an angry bull from low down. I thought it performed well beforehand but it's noticeably better now.

    As a side issue I had installed Rottweiler O2 eliminator dongles before which smoothed the throttle response. Hilltop wanted those removing and you could tell the difference. After the remap it's back to smooth throttle response again. The O2 eliminator dongles were 40us dollars plus shipping, £20 inc postage if anybody wants them for an 1190 or 1290.

    I'll scan the dyno sheet and post it when I open an account with somebody other than photo bucket now that they charge for posting to websites
    Some good figures there.

    I’m getting new headers fitted to mine in a couple of weeks, and was tempted to take it back to Hilltop afterwards, but Mark said that as long as the O2 sensors are fitted, there’s no need. Will see how it rides, and decide once they’re on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDG View Post
    Andres

    It does occur to me that my 1190 was bought late on in the year and had only done 1100 miles before winter and salt set in. The air filter and decat pipe were done during the winter so immediately after winter it went on the dyno. I'd expected a few more hp with more miles on it as it loosened up, though certainly not another 20.
    It really is very weird......you'd never expect identical figures, even off the same dyno as there are so many variables (chain condition, air conditions, blah blah blah) but it just seems such a big difference Whatever, all the bikes come out of Hilltop better fueled, smoother and with fatter mid-ranges and that's what it's all about at the end of the day. The numbers are only good for bragging rights down the pub and for general piss taking...............

    Quote Originally Posted by BDG View Post
    Dyno runs and remapping done today at Hilltop. My 1290S, 5,000 miles with an Akra fitted.

    Before 137.71 hp and 95.72 ft/lbs

    After. 144.68 hp and 99.09 ft/lbs torque

    ........................
    So, still down on a Hilltopped 1190R (well mine anyway) [1]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nutty GSER View Post
    ...............Mark said that as long as the O2 sensors are fitted, there’s no need. Will see how it rides, and decide once they’re on.
    Mark is correct. There really will be no point, just fit and ride. Hilltop alter the 'base' coding not the 'map' that sits on top of it so as long as the data is being sent to the ECU from the various sensors you can make very big changes to the breathing at either end and it will happily work with that (which is why Hilltop asked BDG to refit his O2 sensors)

    Andres

    [1] Please see my first comment re bragging rights
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post



    So, still down on a Hilltopped 1190R (well mine anyway) [1]





    Andres

    [1] Please see my first comment re bragging rights
    Barstard, barstewart, damn and blast. :-)

    But as Giles said, "it's all about the torque" what torque does your produce?

    Actually, on a more serious note, there's some really significant differences in the output of some 1190's and 1290's. I wonder if there is any correlation to the mileage they've done?

    My 1190 was low mileage at the time and I'm only guessing that some of the 1290's that were dyno'd earlier on this year must have been pretty low milage at the time. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDG View Post
    Barstard, barstewart, damn and blast. :-)

    But as Giles said, "it's all about the torque" what torque does your produce?

    Actually, on a more serious note, there's some really significant differences in the output of some 1190's and 1290's. I wonder if there is any correlation to the mileage they've done?

    My 1190 was low mileage at the time and I'm only guessing that some of the 1290's that were dyno'd earlier on this year must have been pretty low milage at the time. Just a thought.
    Ha ha, and yes you're right, it is all about that mid range and torque ~ you've got me well and truly beat on torque with mine going from 79 pre Hilltop to 90 post Hilltop

    From memory, I think mine had about 800 miles on when I took it to Hilltop. Mods were (and still are) Wings silencer and a DNA air filter.

    Andres
    Doris doesn't give a fuck...be more like Doris!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtomunch View Post
    Ha ha, and yes you're right, it is all about that mid range and torque ~ you've got me well and truly beat on torque with mine going from 79 pre Hilltop to 90 post Hilltop

    From memory, I think mine had about 800 miles on when I took it to Hilltop. Mods were (and still are) Wings silencer and a DNA air filter.

    Andres
    There's the answer then, I must buy a DNA filter...............190 bhp next.

    You've killed off my idea of low mileage hurting the results, doh!

    Jesus, you must have done quite some bragging about your 1190 with 25,000 posts

    No offence meant

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Nutty GSER View Post
    Some good figures there.

    I’m getting new headers fitted to mine in a couple of weeks, and was tempted to take it back to Hilltop afterwards, but Mark said that as long as the O2 sensors are fitted, there’s no need. Will see how it rides, and decide once they’re on.


    Why would you keep the sensors ?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbob99 View Post
    Why would you keep the sensors ?.
    So the bike won’t need to be remapped again, I guess. Are they a bad thing then?

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