Delayed launch

To be fair, when you look at them side by side................they both have about equal pluses and minuses

Even in the red scheme, the AT looks more integrated than the GS.
What pluses are there for the GS ?
It looks dreadful-that exhaust is just ridiculous and that screen may as well not be there.

I think the old F800GS will become sought-after seeing as BMW have dropped such a clanger with this carbuncle!
 
Even in the red scheme, the AT looks more integrated than the GS.
What pluses are there for the GS ?
It looks dreadful-that exhaust is just ridiculous and that screen may as well not be there.

I think the old F800GS will become sought-after seeing as BMW have dropped such a clanger with this carbuncle!

Just like the R1150GSA and the R1200GSA TC both seem to hold their money and always be in demand. :beerjug:
 
The new 850GS does not excite me either (Chinese made motor,looks,weigt,chain,no boxer) but I still would it buy over the boring Africa-Twin (most boring bike ever ever took a test-ride on) any day !
The BMW F850GS wins over the Honda A-T by offering TUBELESS tires !!! How Honda can offer tubes in 2018 on a bike that is ridden 95% on road all of the time is beyond me ?
Of course tubed rims are cheaper but a total pain in the arse if you have a flat...:eek:
 
The new 850GS does not excite me either (Chinese made motor,looks,weigt,chain,no boxer) but I still would it buy over the boring Africa-Twin (most boring bike ever ever took a test-ride on) any day !
The BMW F850GS wins over the Honda A-T by offering TUBELESS tires !!! How Honda can offer tubes in 2018 on a bike that is ridden 95% on road all of the time is beyond me ?
Of course tubed rims are cheaper but a total pain in the arse if you have a flat...:eek:

So you rode an Africa Twin once and can now dismiss it out of hand because it has tubes ! I assume you haven't ridden the latest model ? No, thought not.
Your BMW indoctrination is complete.You just need a forum name now to tell us all how much you love the Boring Mediocre Weighty bikes......how hang,you've already got one ! :rolleyes:
 
Like I said the Africa-Twin was the most boring bike I ever rode ! I just don't remember what bored me the most. ? The engine that made no power or noise,The even slower steering or was it the soft suspension that made me almost seasick ? Sorry I don't remember...But having a flat on the side of the road can definitely be exciting on the Honda trying to get the wheel and tire off to fix the tube...:D
 
Like I said the Africa-Twin was the most boring bike I ever rode ! I just don't remember what bored me the most. ? The engine that made no power or noise,The even slower steering or was it the soft suspension that made me almost seasick ? Sorry I don't remember...But having a flat on the side of the road can definitely be exciting on the Honda trying to get the wheel and tire off to fix the tube...:D

I have to say, I like BMW bikes (probably more than I should), but when I rode the “wheezy” Africa Twin last year, I was very impressed. I definitely wouldn’t call it boring. If your location ‘norcal’ refers to Northern California, I can imagine that boring is probably the norm.
 
Kalifornia is indeed boring but Mexico is close and anything but boring...:thumb
But the A-T made even my GS feel very exciting...:D
And tubed tires are an absolute no go...:(
 
I rode the 850 today just for 40 mins as there were a few waiting for a ride also.
First thing I noticed was the foot pegs seemed a lot higher and felt a tat cramped for me.
Went well,handled well and like the clarity of the TFT dash. but didn't excite me particularly.
The exhaust looked like t was made by a first year metalwork student!
 
Had a gander at an 850 in Bristol Motorrad today, thank f**k I didn’t order one, very disappointing to look at and the ergonomics aren’t to my liking either, (ATAS ergo is are superb). It felt lighter than my ATAS, but I don’t think it had a lot of fuel in it. I’m sure it’ll ride nice enough, but the exhaust system :eek: is truly a disaster from an aesthetic point of view. Hopefully the adventure version will be a better looker.
 
As I probably will be trading my F800GS for a 850 eventually. This morning at the dealer, I asked if they had a demo bike by now.

I was informed that the production of the 750/850 was stopped due to an issue with the engine (he suggested som cam related problems, but wasn't sure), and they had stowed away their floor-bikes. Also, the very few bikes that was already delivered where called back and the owners where offered alternative bikes while waiting for a solution.
As for time span, BMW have not been very informative (they probably have no given answer), but there where already talk about possible relaunch for 2019.

Anyway, even though I have not tried one yet, I like the looks of it, and when problems are sorted out, my guess is that the bike will sell well.


I have nothing against any other brand, but the BMW gets my blood pumping. (And I don't feel stupid or prejudice saying so). So I look forward to when they get the problems sorted out.
 
As I probably will be trading my F800GS for a 850 eventually. This morning at the dealer, I asked if they had a demo bike by now.

I was informed that the production of the 750/850 was stopped due to an issue with the engine (he suggested som cam related problems, but wasn't sure), and they had stowed away their floor-bikes. Also, the very few bikes that was already delivered where called back and the owners where offered alternative bikes while waiting for a solution.
As for time span, BMW have not been very informative (they probably have no given answer), but there where already talk about possible relaunch for 2019.

Anyway, even though I have not tried one yet, I like the looks of it, and when problems are sorted out, my guess is that the bike will sell well.


I have nothing against any other brand, but the BMW gets my blood pumping. (And I don't feel stupid or prejudice saying so). So I look forward to when they get the problems sorted out.

Sounds like ideal way to launch a new bike

Announce it
Decide on a Spring 2018 launch
Delay it until Summer 2018
Launch it hush-hush, without a fanfare
Get the bikes out for a few weeks
Decide there is a problem
Hide them away again
Take them back from early adopters and offer them something else

What a malarkey of epic proportions

Stunning
 
Sounds like ideal way to launch a new bike

Announce it
Decide on a Spring 2018 launch
Delay it until Summer 2018
Launch it hush-hush, without a fanfare
Get the bikes out for a few weeks
Decide there is a problem
Hide them away again
Take them back from early adopters and offer them something else

What a malarkey of epic proportions

Stunning

Sssh , keep your head below the parapet or the zealots will be tracking you down with pitchforks and flaming torches
 
Sounds like ideal way to launch a new bike

Announce it
Decide on a Spring 2018 launch
Delay it until Summer 2018
Launch it hush-hush, without a fanfare
Get the bikes out for a few weeks
Decide there is a problem
Hide them away again
Take them back from early adopters and offer them something else

What a malarkey of epic proportions

Stunning

Didn’t something similar happen when the RT was launched? It’s farcical, for sure.
 
Didn’t something similar happen when the RT was launched? It’s farcical, for sure.

I'm sure BMW more than any one did not want this to happen. But I appreciate the fact that they step up and acts when the problem occurs, rather sweep it under the carpet. I feel fairly confident that the bike has been thoroughly tested, and yet this problem comes along.

Well, no matter how well you test a new product, some problem sometimes escapes the test program.
I guess it is a bit like making a baby. You may make a woman pregnant, and the baby will be there after nine months. But making 9 women pregnant will not provide a baby in 1 month.
 
I'm sure BMW more than any one did not want this to happen. But I appreciate the fact that they step up and acts when the problem occurs, rather sweep it under the carpet. I feel fairly confident that the bike has been thoroughly tested, and yet this problem comes along.

Well, no matter how well you test a new product, some problem sometimes escapes the test program.
I guess it is a bit like making a baby. You may make a woman pregnant, and the baby will be there after nine months. But making 9 women pregnant will not provide a baby in 1 month.

Your glass was certainly more than half full this morning. Sorry, BMW are renowned for their under carpet sweeping prowess.

Everyone's concern is the simple fact that BMW have left too much of it's beta testing to early adopter customers for quite some while now. Sometimes it works out OK, so you beat the opposition to the market, sometimes not. Here we have another example of contracting out engine supply only to find things going wrong, moving away from Rotax & a relatively short supply line, to China can't have helped. Personally I'm no China basher; it's up to the Mothership to lay down & then enforce quality controls in line with their contract. As JonnyB's post highlights, we all became a tad suspicious with the delay & low key launch. If rumours are correct, at least we don't have an issue the size of the RT rear shock debarcle, but still this reflects poorly on Berlin. As an F650GS owner I was interested in checking out the new F750 model - KTM must be laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Your glass was certainly more than half full this morning. Sorry, BMW are renowned for their under carpet sweeping prowess.

Everyone's concern is the simple fact that BMW have left too much of it's beta testing to early adopter customers for quite some while now. Sometimes it works out OK, so you beat the opposition to the market, sometimes not. Here we have another example of contracting out engine supply only to find things going wrong, moving away from Rotax & a relatively short supply line, to China can't have helped. Personally I'm no China basher; it's up to the Mothership to lay down & then enforce quality controls in line with their contract. As JonnyB's post highlights, we all became a tad suspicious with the delay & low key launch. If rumours are correct, at least we don't have an issue the size of the RT rear shock debarcle, but still this reflects poorly on Berlin. As an F650GS owner I was interested in checking out the new F750 model - KTM must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, to me, the full glass approach have proven superior if I want to achieve my goals, so it comes highly recommended.

As for the Beta testing, it is my impression that BMW does test their products as much as any of their competitors. What makes them stand out compared to most of their competitors is that for BMW a new bike is a NEW bike. No slightly modified engine or frame. While this way of doing things make them more voulnerable to hidden issues they take care of their customers once the issue has been established. And in my bubble they do a superior job as compared to their competition.

To mention a couple of examples:
I have some friends that ride the Triumph Explorer. A fine bike, no doubt. The three guys have purchased four Explorers in the periode 2012 - 2016. Amongst the four bikes, four of the bikes have been brought home on a lorry with serious engine breakdown. In four out of four cases the owner had to work hard to convince Triumph that the breakdown was none of his wrong doing. Three of the bikes were repaired while number 4 got a new engine. In all cases the process was a frustrating experience for the owner and the riding season was cut in half. No loaner bike, no nothing, they had prime riding season ruined. Today, only one of them stil rides his Explorer, and he is considering to follow his two mates that now rides 1200GS.

An other guy bought a new KTM 1290R Adventure. Bike delivered in April this year. First week of may, a heavy oil leak was discovered from one of the cylinder. To cut a long story short, the bike is still in the shop, the guy has been without a ride since beginning of may, and he is now looking into buying a cheap bike while waiting for wonder to be fixed, and he is lawyering up to cancel the deal or get a new bike..

These are cases I know who the persons are. I have heard of more cases of the KTM. So my friend, I don't think KTM are laughing, and their customers certainly are not, at least not all of them.


One more: A friend of mine discovered a knocking sound from the engine in his 4 years old F800GS, with 60 000 Km of hard riding, lots of it heavy offroad (heavy as bike falling over etc).
He brought the bike to the dealer , and dealer told him they would look into it. A good week later, the dealer called him and said: We found som unusual wear in one of the cylinders. This should not happen. BMW is shipping a new engine. It will be here in a couple of days. The guy was back on the road in less than two weeks.


A long life have given me a lot of riding buddys with all kind of bikes. While BMWs for sure are not without flaws, I can not think of a single brand that takes better care of their customers and step up with loaner bikes if a flaw is discovered.


So my friend. Yes, my glass is half full, and I would not hesitate bying a new or used BMW bike fearing the quality and support from my dealer.
 
Your glass was certainly more than half full this morning. Sorry, BMW are renowned for their under carpet sweeping prowess.

Everyone's concern is the simple fact that BMW have left too much of it's beta testing to early adopter customers for quite some while now. Sometimes it works out OK, so you beat the opposition to the market, sometimes not. Here we have another example of contracting out engine supply only to find things going wrong, moving away from Rotax & a relatively short supply line, to China can't have helped. Personally I'm no China basher; it's up to the Mothership to lay down & then enforce quality controls in line with their contract. As JonnyB's post highlights, we all became a tad suspicious with the delay & low key launch. If rumours are correct, at least we don't have an issue the size of the RT rear shock debarcle, but still this reflects poorly on Berlin. As an F650GS owner I was interested in checking out the new F750 model - KTM must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, to me, the full glass approach have proven superior if I want to achieve my goals, so it comes highly recommended.

As for the Beta testing, it is my impression that BMW does test their products as much as any of their competitors. What makes them stand out compared to most of their competitors is that for BMW a new bike is a NEW bike. No slightly modified engine or frame. While this way of doing things make them more voulnerable to hidden issues they take care of their customers once the issue has been established. And in my bubble they do a superior job as compared to their competition.

To mention a couple of examples:
I have some friends that ride the Triumph Explorer. A fine bike, no doubt. The three guys have purchased four Explorers in the periode 2012 - 2016. Amongst the four bikes, four of the bikes have been brought home on a lorry with serious engine breakdown. In four out of four cases the owner had to work hard to convince Triumph that the breakdown was none of his wrong doing. Three of the bikes were repaired while number 4 got a new engine. In all cases the process was a frustrating experience for the owner and the riding season was cut in half. No loaner bike, no nothing, they had prime riding season ruined. Today, only one of them stil rides his Explorer, and he is considering to follow his two mates that now rides 1200GS.

An other guy bought a new KTM 1290R Adventure. Bike delivered in April this year. First week of may, a heavy oil leak was discovered from one of the cylinder. To cut a long story short, the bike is still in the shop, the guy has been without a ride since beginning of may, and he is now looking into buying a cheap bike while waiting for wonder to be fixed, and he is lawyering up to cancel the deal or get a new bike..

These are cases I know who the persons are. I have heard of more cases of the KTM. So my friend, I don't think KTM are laughing, and their customers certainly are not, at least not all of them.


One more: A friend of mine discovered a knocking sound from the engine in his 4 years old F800GS, with 60 000 Km of hard riding, lots of it heavy offroad (heavy as bike falling over etc).
He brought the bike to the dealer , and dealer told him they would look into it. A good week later, the dealer called him and said: We found som unusual wear in one of the cylinders. This should not happen. BMW is shipping a new engine. It will be here in a couple of days. The guy was back on the road in less than two weeks.


A long life have given me a lot of riding buddys with all kind of bikes. While BMWs for sure are not without flaws, I can not think of a single brand that takes better care of their customers and step up with loaner bikes if a flaw is discovered.


So my friend. Yes, my glass is half full, and I would not hesitate bying a new or used BMW bike fearing the quality and support from my dealer.
 
Well, to me, the full glass approach have proven superior if I want to achieve my goals, so it comes highly recommended.

As for the Beta testing, it is my impression that BMW does test their products as much as any of their competitors. What makes them stand out compared to most of their competitors is that for BMW a new bike is a NEW bike. No slightly modified engine or frame. While this way of doing things make them more voulnerable to hidden issues they take care of their customers once the issue has been established. And in my bubble they do a superior job as compared to their competition.

To mention a couple of examples:
I have some friends that ride the Triumph Explorer. A fine bike, no doubt. The three guys have purchased four Explorers in the periode 2012 - 2016. Amongst the four bikes, four of the bikes have been brought home on a lorry with serious engine breakdown. In four out of four cases the owner had to work hard to convince Triumph that the breakdown was none of his wrong doing. Three of the bikes were repaired while number 4 got a new engine. In all cases the process was a frustrating experience for the owner and the riding season was cut in half. No loaner bike, no nothing, they had prime riding season ruined. Today, only one of them stil rides his Explorer, and he is considering to follow his two mates that now rides 1200GS.

An other guy bought a new KTM 1290R Adventure. Bike delivered in April this year. First week of may, a heavy oil leak was discovered from one of the cylinder. To cut a long story short, the bike is still in the shop, the guy has been without a ride since beginning of may, and he is now looking into buying a cheap bike while waiting for wonder to be fixed, and he is lawyering up to cancel the deal or get a new bike..

These are cases I know who the persons are. I have heard of more cases of the KTM. So my friend, I don't think KTM are laughing, and their customers certainly are not, at least not all of them.


One more: A friend of mine discovered a knocking sound from the engine in his 4 years old F800GS, with 60 000 Km of hard riding, lots of it heavy offroad (heavy as bike falling over etc).
He brought the bike to the dealer , and dealer told him they would look into it. A good week later, the dealer called him and said: We found som unusual wear in one of the cylinders. This should not happen. BMW is shipping a new engine. It will be here in a couple of days. The guy was back on the road in less than two weeks.


A long life have given me a lot of riding buddys with all kind of bikes. While BMWs for sure are not without flaws, I can not think of a single brand that takes better care of their customers and step up with loaner bikes if a flaw is discovered.


So my friend. Yes, my glass is half full, and I would not hesitate bying a new or used BMW bike fearing the quality and support from my dealer.

I would agree, some people have an undue high expectation of BMW. I have had new Harleys before my RT, one was a 28k bike new, it arrived with a faulty kill switch, which was the only way to switch off the bike as it was keyless. 8 weeks later the part arrived to the dealers to fit. During my 2 year ownership, it had 5 recalls, and 5 warranty claims, all of which had to have photo taken by the dealer to get authorisation to do the work. Dealership was 20 miles away, no loan bike, not even a lift to the station to get home. BMW are 100 per cent a better option, when shit happens at least they stand by their product.
 


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