More post 4.90 update testing

Hatcho

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Went out this evening to see if I can nail down how the Nav6 will behave in certain scenarios. I'm doing a trip in Europe later in the year and I want to have the unit's behaviour figured out in advance. The routes for the trip that I have put together in Basecamp have just two waypoints - a Start point and a Finish point. All the shaping points in between are set to 'do not alert'. Routes are between 200 and 300 kms and I have 'walked' them in Basecamp dropping a shaping point every 1 to 2 kms and making sure the magenta line followed the route I intend to ride.

So I created a simple route in Basecamp - one with a similar format to my long Euro routes - just a Start and Finish waypoint with shaping points in between. Using this simple route the scenarios I want to replicate are:

Scenario 1
On our trip we set off on that days route following the shaping points as I have entered them into Basecamp back home. At some stage we decide to deviate from the route (e.g. for petrol). Post refuel, I want to be able to simply return to the route (without navigation assistance is fine) and resume it (either from where we left off or further along the route).

So while following my simple route near home I deliberately deviated from the route, the device then asked if I wanted to recalculate and I chose 'No'. The route line remained unchanged and the display showed me moving away from the route. Once I turned around and rejoined the route everything continued along as expected. Most importantly, the route I had defined back at home remained unchanged (the device did not recalculate anything at all). Happy days.

I then exited the route on the device, returned to the beginning of the route and restarted the test by again selecting the same route. This time when I deviated from the route and the prompt to recalculate appeared I chose 'Yes' to see what would happen. The device then chose a course that would bring me back to the route I had just deviated from. But the interesting thing is that it was routing me to the first shaping point that I had failed to reach due to my having deviated from the route. As it turned out, the new course (calculated by the device) would return me to the original route just a little after that missed shaping point. The road I was currently on brought me to a t-junction where the shaping point was to the left and the continuation of the original route was to the right. The display was telling me to turn left (contrary to the direction of the original route) towards the shaping point. Once I did so, the device then recognised we were back on route and told me to do a u-turn even before reaching that shaping point.

In summary, when following a route with just start and finish waypoints and only shaping points in between, when you deviate from the route and choose to recalculate when prompted, the device will direct you to the first missed shaping point. If you happen to rejoin the original route before that it will simply resume following pre-defined route from that point on. This falls in line with the fact that shaping points are non-compulsory unlike waypoints which are compulsory. Again, happy days.


Scenario 2
On our trip we set off on that days route following the shaping points as I have entered them into Basecamp back home. At some point along the route we stop without leaving the route. Whilst stopped I exit the route on the device and use the Nav6 to determine the distance to some POI or other. When I again select the route, the device prompts me to choose either the start waypoint or the finish waypoint. If I choose the finish waypoint does the device follow my planned route which consist only of shaping points and the one Finish waypoint, or does it recalculate the route according to its own routing settings?

For this test I again used a simple route with just a Start and Finish waypoint with several shaping points in between. Once past the Start waypoint and following the route I pulled over, I exited the route by clicking the red 'X' and the route line disappeared form the display. I played around with the Nav a little to find out the route to an arbitrary petrol station. I then canceled out of the route to the petrol station and then selected my simple route. I was prompted to select either the Start or Finish waypoint and I selected the latter. To my delight, the device routed me to the Finish taking into account the shaping points I had plotted at home. There was an alternative shorter route to the Finish but the Nav ignored this. Happy days again.

In summary, if you exit a route (with just start and finish waypoints and only shaping points in between) on the device and you haven't deviated from the route, it is possible to select and resume that route and the device will follow the remaining shaping points all the way to the Finish waypoint.


Apologies for the long-windedness of all this, and I realise the above may be old news to some or even all, but I needed to write down what I tested and what the result was each time. It might even help someone else who's not certain what the device will do in a given situation.

Cheers,
Seán.
 
Don’t apologise, that’s useful information. Can I ask do you use basecamp on a Mac or windows? It’s just regarding how you enter your shaping points on basecamp.
 
Don’t apologise, that’s useful information. Can I ask do you use basecamp on a Mac or windows? It’s just regarding how you enter your shaping points on basecamp.

Thanks, what I'm trying to do is cover all the eventualities that might occur while touring and know what'll happen in advance. I'm using Bascamp on Windows. Route is created using the create route too and clicking points along the route I intend to take. Once route is done I open it, select all the points except first and last, and set them to 'Do not alert'.

One thing I have noticed which doesn't seem to be right. If I double click on one of those intermediate points and edit it's name (something like 'after petrol station) I can see the name change in the route details in Basecamp. But when I send the route to the Nav6 the new name does not appear on the device. The point still has its old name (e.g. something like R413 and R416). Is there a setting in Basecamp to ensure the edited names are transferred to the device?
 
good info I have a tour planned in July to picos de europa. But I am using tyrestotravel for routes. I think unplanned deviations for petrol etc will need me to educate myself on the nav,s priorities
 
I use a Mac and when I create a route I just drag the magenta line to where I want to go, I suppose that create the shaping points.
 
I use a Mac and when I create a route I just drag the magenta line to where I want to go, I suppose that create the shaping points.

Indeed it does. But, by default, the Mac / BaseCamp combination makes the shaping points into ‘announced’ waypoints. If you want shaping points, convert all of any of them into shaping points at leisure.
 
Thanks, I did see an option to announce shaping points or not.
 
Thanks for the information - very useful and largely repeats the sort of experiments that I had been doing a while back.

A couple of the conclusions that you have drawn disagree with what I have found - although I can fully understand why you have drawn them.

In summary, when following a route with just start and finish waypoints and only shaping points in between, when you deviate from the route and choose to recalculate when prompted, the device will direct you to the first missed shaping point. If you happen to rejoin the original route before that it will simply resume following pre-defined route from that point on. This falls in line with the fact that shaping points are non-compulsory unlike waypoints which are compulsory. Again, happy days.

Way points are simply stored points in Basecamp's or Zumo's database. They can be put into a route and they can be made to act as either shaping points or via points. You can switch them from one to the other once the route has been loaded into the satnav.

The first part of this paragraph is exactly correct. If you miss a shaping point, but rejoin the original magenta route, the satnav will take you to the next point on the route that you have joined. Even if you have missed out a few shaping points before re-joining the route. As you noted, it tried to navigate you back to the missed point, but as soon as it realised you had gone past it and you were back on route - it took you on to the next point.

Note that the satnav may end up recalculating the route - but it will only recalculate from where you are now to the next shaping point or via point.

Scenario 2
On our trip we set off on that days route following the shaping points as I have entered them into Basecamp back home. At some point along the route we stop without leaving the route. Whilst stopped I exit the route on the device and use the Nav6 to determine the distance to some POI or other. When I again select the route, the device prompts me to choose either the start waypoint or the finish waypoint. If I choose the finish waypoint does the device follow my planned route which consist only of shaping points and the one Finish waypoint, or does it recalculate the route according to its own routing settings?

For this test I again used a simple route with just a Start and Finish waypoint with several shaping points in between. Once past the Start waypoint and following the route I pulled over, I exited the route by clicking the red 'X' and the route line disappeared form the display. I played around with the Nav a little to find out the route to an arbitrary petrol station. I then canceled out of the route to the petrol station and then selected my simple route. I was prompted to select either the Start or Finish waypoint and I selected the latter. To my delight, the device routed me to the Finish taking into account the shaping points I had plotted at home. There was an alternative shorter route to the Finish but the Nav ignored this. Happy days again.

In summary, if you exit a route (with just start and finish waypoints and only shaping points in between) on the device and you haven't deviated from the route, it is possible to select and resume that route and the device will follow the remaining shaping points all the way to the Finish waypoint.

Your conclusion here does not match my own observations - but I am using a Zumo 590, so it is possible that the software has been updated - because what you observed is the way I reckon that it should work.

My observations are that when you start a route, and you select FINISH as the next destination, the satnav takes you to the FINISH and completely disregards any shaping points on the original route - calculating a new route to the FINISH using the routing preferences set up in the satnav. It may be that the calculated route matches the original route - particularly since these later units build up a profile of how you ride on different roads, and may also take into account historic traffic data (included with the maps) in order to calculate the fastest time.

Your test though seems to be conclusive. I wonder if it would do that if a new route had been loaded in and navigation had started on the new route, before reverting back to the original route ?

I do know that if you have a route of START, SHAPE, SHAPE, SHAPE, END and are in mid route - select START as the next destination, and then press Skip - that will take you to the shaping points from where you are to the next shaping points towards the FINISH.

I'm curious to know if this is a software upgrade on the Nav6 - as this is one of the 'features' that I complained about bitterly to Garmin when I first got my 590. The way it behaves is not logical, in my opinion, and it would be good to know if they intended to address it - if they have done so on the Nav 6.
 
Thanks for the information - very useful and largely repeats the sort of experiments that I had been doing a while back.

A couple of the conclusions that you have drawn disagree with what I have found - although I can fully understand why you have drawn them.



Way points are simply stored points in Basecamp's or Zumo's database. They can be put into a route and they can be made to act as either shaping points or via points. You can switch them from one to the other once the route has been loaded into the satnav.

The first part of this paragraph is exactly correct. If you miss a shaping point, but rejoin the original magenta route, the satnav will take you to the next point on the route that you have joined. Even if you have missed out a few shaping points before re-joining the route. As you noted, it tried to navigate you back to the missed point, but as soon as it realised you had gone past it and you were back on route - it took you on to the next point.

Note that the satnav may end up recalculating the route - but it will only recalculate from where you are now to the next shaping point or via point.



Your conclusion here does not match my own observations - but I am using a Zumo 590, so it is possible that the software has been updated - because what you observed is the way I reckon that it should work.

My observations are that when you start a route, and you select FINISH as the next destination, the satnav takes you to the FINISH and completely disregards any shaping points on the original route - calculating a new route to the FINISH using the routing preferences set up in the satnav. It may be that the calculated route matches the original route - particularly since these later units build up a profile of how you ride on different roads, and may also take into account historic traffic data (included with the maps) in order to calculate the fastest time.

Your test though seems to be conclusive. I wonder if it would do that if a new route had been loaded in and navigation had started on the new route, before reverting back to the original route ?

I do know that if you have a route of START, SHAPE, SHAPE, SHAPE, END and are in mid route - select START as the next destination, and then press Skip - that will take you to the shaping points from where you are to the next shaping points towards the FINISH.

I'm curious to know if this is a software upgrade on the Nav6 - as this is one of the 'features' that I complained about bitterly to Garmin when I first got my 590. The way it behaves is not logical, in my opinion, and it would be good to know if they intended to address it - if they have done so on the Nav 6.

I do believe the behaviour of the Nav VI in the second scenario is a result of a software upgrade to 4.90. Last summer when I was touring around the south of Ireland I exited the pre-planned route on the device. When I re-entered the route and selected the FINISH point as the next destination, the device completely disregarded my pre-planned route and calculated its own route to get us to the FINISH point. This particularly boiled my piss at the time as there were several places I wanted to bring the group to along the remainder of the pre-planned route, none of which were now on the new route created by the device. As per the second test I ran, it seems that the software upgrade to 4.90 has corrected this behaviour. Hopefully I won't discover I'm wrong in the middle of the Dolomites next August!

I plan to do a bit more testing to make sure the device will behave as expected when we're touring. My main aim is to get to the point where the device pretty much just follows the pre-planned route and does as little 'smart routing' as possible. Basically, I want it to behave just like my good old 550 did - then I'll be a happy bunny.
 
I do believe the behaviour of the Nav VI in the second scenario is a result of a software upgrade to 4.90. Last summer when I was touring around the south of Ireland I exited the pre-planned route on the device. When I re-entered the route and selected the FINISH point as the next destination, the device completely disregarded my pre-planned route and calculated its own route to get us to the FINISH point. This particularly boiled my piss at the time as there were several places I wanted to bring the group to along the remainder of the pre-planned route, none of which were now on the new route created by the device. As per the second test I ran, it seems that the software upgrade to 4.90 has corrected this behaviour. Hopefully I won't discover I'm wrong in the middle of the Dolomites next August!

I plan to do a bit more testing to make sure the device will behave as expected when we're touring. My main aim is to get to the point where the device pretty much just follows the pre-planned route and does as little 'smart routing' as possible. Basically, I want it to behave just like my good old 550 did - then I'll be a happy bunny.
I was playing with new to me Nav6. I've found new interesting options under developer tools. It is called "Navigator VI options". Among a couple others there are two about automatic waypoint skipping - time (in seconds) and distance (in meters). I have to test it.

Wysłane z mojego Nexus 5X przy użyciu Tapatalka
 
Scenario 3

Scenario 3
On our trip, whilst following our predetermined route, we deviate from the route on purpose (petrol station, POI etc.). Whilst still off-route I choose to exit the navigation on the device. Before heading off again, I need to re-select the predetermined route, return to it and continue on the route following the path that I designed back home.

For this test, I again used a route that has only start and finish waypoints with just shaping points in between. Partway along the route I deviated from the route on purpose. As expected, the device asks me to recalculate and I choose 'No'. The magenta line remains on the screen showing the original route I have just deviated from. Now I exit navigation by hitting the red 'X' on the main screen. As expected, all that is displayed is the map - no lines, magenta or otherwise.

Next step is to re-select the route via the trip planner. As usual I'm asked which waypoint do I want to start from (remember this route has only two waypoints - Start and Finish). I selected the Finish waypoint and clicked 'Start'. The device then re-calculated the route and the remainder of the journey, and it is NOT the route that I designed at home - it is simply the most direct route to the Finish waypoint. So the device has calculated its own route for the remainder of the journey to the Finish point. Not what I want.

So I again exit the navigation by clicking the red 'X' and go through selecting the route again. This time when asked where do I want to start from, I selected the Start waypoint of the route. When I examine the magenta route in detail, it of course first routes me back to the start of the journey and then onto my pre-determined route. However, when I click the 'Skip next waypoint' icon on the map screen the device then directs me to the next shaping point, and the remainder of the route follows the path I designed at home. Happy days. :)

In summary, when following a route with just Start and Finish waypoints (only shaping points in between), if you exit navigation after leaving your predetermined route and you want to first return to and then follow that route, do the following:


  1. In Trip Planner select the route you want to return to
  2. When asked select the Start waypoint of the route.
  3. Now click 'Skip next Waypoint'

The resulting displayed route will direct you to the nearest shaping point and will then follow all the shaping points of the route that you created at home.


Happy to hear feedback on the above from anyone else who's tried similar...:thumb2
 
Stupid question, but what happens if you don’t have any shaping points, i.e. you just had a start/finish point on basecamp?
 
Stupid question, but what happens if you don’t have any shaping points, i.e. you just had a start/finish point on basecamp?

No idea to be honest, but I'd imagine if you're not using any shaping points in Basecamp at all (and just letting the software decide where you go), then you're probably not that fussed about whether the Nav unit follows your Basecamp route or an alternative route it decides on.
 
No idea to be honest, but I'd imagine if you're not using any shaping points in Basecamp at all (and just letting the software decide where you go), then you're probably not that fussed about whether the Nav unit follows your Basecamp route or an alternative route it decides on.

That’s what I thought, but in the rare occasion that basecamp gives you the route you want without shaping it ......................
 
That’s what I thought, but in the rare occasion that basecamp gives you the route you want without shaping it ......................

With no shaping points to use, I would imagine the nav unit would simply route to the finish point using whatever settings were configured (fastest route, shortest distance, avoid toll roads etc.). But I have not tested this out so cannot say definitively.
 
Yes I agree, so with the way you are routing your trips on basecamp (whether it’s set on car, bike etc) creating shaping points to take you on the route you want does it matter how you have you nav6 set i.e. car, bike, curvy or fastest etc? I have found if I load the route into the nav from basecamp, then open the route in trip planner I see the route as I planned but if I change the profile it changes the route? So I’m presuming the route stays as planned for the 1st time of opening until you change the profile?
 
Yes I agree, so with the way you are routing your trips on basecamp (whether it’s set on car, bike etc) creating shaping points to take you on the route you want does it matter how you have you nav6 set i.e. car, bike, curvy or fastest etc? I have found if I load the route into the nav from basecamp, then open the route in trip planner I see the route as I planned but if I change the profile it changes the route? So I’m presuming the route stays as planned for the 1st time of opening until you change the profile?

Changing profiles isn't something I've delved into yet. My main aim is to ensure the route remains the very same as the one I designed at home, even when stopping part way through, or leaving the route, or exiting the navigation function mid route (as per the scenarios described earlier in the thread). The Nav5 and Nav6 units differ quite a lot from older units such as the Zumo 550 in that they will sometimes perform their own routing and override what you've done in Basecamp. What I'm looking to achieve is for my Nav6 to just play dumb and follow the route I created in Basecamp.

What I've found so far is when I select a route via Trip Planner, it is always true to the one made on Basecamp. Issues may only arise when you go off-route, or cancel navigation mid-route. I would avoid changing the profile after you've loaded the route onto the device, unless there's a particular reason you might want to do this?
 
This is where my old Montana used to excel, you could just follow the track loaded from basecamp. I believe the nav7 will come with the adventurous routing with the slide rule. Following preplanned routes from basecamp is 80% of how I use mine, but I wish I could do more with it on the fly.
 
No idea to be honest, but I'd imagine if you're not using any shaping points in Basecamp at all (and just letting the software decide where you go), then you're probably not that fussed about whether the Nav unit follows your Basecamp route or an alternative route it decides on.

That’s about right

That’s what I thought, but in the rare occasion that basecamp gives you the route you want without shaping it ......................

If you were near enough on your A to B, Garmin created route with no intermediate shaping or waypoints and if:

1. The preference settings are the same between your computer and your gps device

2. There is no meaningful / significant alternative routes available

There is every chance your device will offer up the same route, in order for you to continue your machine generated route through to B
 
Changing profiles and preferences can sometimes have a significant result on the route the device offers up.

Imagine a route A to B created on a computer in BaseCamp or Mapsource, using motorways in between. Send the same A to B route to a device that has its preferences set to avoid motorways. The device will do its best to join A to B, avoiding motorways.

Imagine the same A to B route but with a shaping of waypoint on a motorway. The device will do its best to avoid motorways but will route the rider along the motorway in order to satisfy the way or shaping point instruction.
 


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