And so it resumes

Another day another couple of hours messing with the Notrun. I popped into the workshop for an hour yesterday and decided it was time to drain the oil that had seeped into the sump and was horrified to find a small amount of black sludge stuck to the magnet on the sump plug! Where the fuck that came from on a bike that hasn’t run I didn’t know so I retreated to the house for a beer and a sulk.

I couldn’t leave it so this afternoon the strainer was removed from the sump and it looked brand new with only a couple of black streaks in the otherwise pristine oil so my guess is that there was something in one of the oil lines when I messed about with it last time and it had settled to the bottom where the magnet grabbed it. I took the strainer out of the oil tank and that was spotless but there’s rust (only a small amount) sitting in the bottom of the oil tank in the oil left there so I got a tiny little inspection mirror and sure enough the top of the oil tank has a bit of rust so I’d guess it’s come from condensation forming in there and when it dries out the rust flakes dropped to the bottom. There’s about 10-15 from the bottom of the strainer to the bottom of the tank so it’s not going to get into the oil supply but I’ll get it out with a magnet on a stick before starting it.

I topped up the oil in the primary chain case and the gear box so they’re good to go and if I could find a suitable implement I’d have primed the oil feed to the crankshaft but the turkey baster seems to be missing so maybe my wife has taken a sneaky look at the list of jobs remaining and knowing what I’m like hidden it :D

I’ll deal with that tomorrow then pour a gallon of unleaded into it and see how things progress from there.
 
Have you got a tap in the oil line to stop wet sumping? They can act as a trap for sludge, dependant on type - otherwise it was probably in the lines if you are using the originals, as you suggest.

Oil tank - how about removal; block off the oil feed/return, refill with flushing oil & a few marbles/glass beads. Agitate briskly & this will dislodge any flakes of paint at the top.
 
I keep going back to the idea of fitting a tap to the oil line but the obvious concern is remembering it's there. It would only be for times when the bike is going to stand for more than a fortnight so a magnetic sticker on the tank would solve the problem of memory lapses.

I’ll fish out the worst of the rust then fire the bike up and once I know it runs and it’s time to service the forks, change the fluid in the front brake and do all the other little jobs like register it (it’s a US bike and I’ve not bothered registering it yet) I’ll take the tank out and fill it with cheap supermarket branded coke then leave it for about a week then clean it and if all goes to plan it’ll be free of rust.

The speedo is apparently fucked and the manufacturers have said return it to Andover Norton in the first instance and they’ll just send me a new one. I need to find a push switch to operate the different functions such as the trip and the main odometer but that’ll just be a simple chromed horn button on the bars. It’ll look a bit out of place and Andover Norton said don’t bother but the guy at the manufacturers seemed to think I’d be mad not to be able to access the odometer without shorting out a wire which is the other option and it’s not a show bike so why would I give a stuff if someone questions why it’s there?
 
Can't wait for the 'First Start' video on Youtube ...

Regs

Simon

PS I don't think these guys match your rather exacting standards! :)

 
I’m officially pissed off with the piece of shit Notrun :mad:

Other things distracted me until about 5pm and at that point I was happy that everything needing lubrication had got lubrication, it had big fat sparks from both sides and petrol flowed when I pressed down on the ticklers so it should start. It gave a bit of a fart and that was it. It shouldn’t matter which lead goes to which plug (I’ve got a single coil on it) but I tried swapping them over and nothing. I gave it a slug of easystart and warmed the plugs but still nothing.

I’ll open up the wrapping on the wires for the electronic ignition tomorrow and double check that everything there is where it should be because even though I’ve got monster sparks that’s no good if they’re not happening in the right place.

I know this is going to be something really stupid but I can see me hiring a bigger van and taking it to someone and getting them to sort it out because I’m going round in circles with it :nenau
 
If it doesn't fire properly with quickstart, then either valve or ign timing has to be out.

If I understand correctly, you get a spark every 360 rotation to both plugs , which you say are good & fat so unlikely to be extinguished under compression. Presumably they occur around tdc & aren't 180 out at bdc somehow (sorry I am not familiar with the retro fit of the BB system). Presumably compression is strong, so no leaky valves in prospect, so could it be valve timing - seems unlikely TBH as it's pretty straightforward IIRC.

Stay with it; it has to be a simple solution.
 
............

I know this is going to be something really stupid..............

If it doesn't fire properly with quickstart, then either valve or ign timing has to be out.

..................

Stay with it; it has to be a simple solution.

I feel your pain Andy and was in exactly the same position with my Guzzi after fitting an electronic ignition a few months ago. I double, treble, quadruple checked the wiring. All looked good.

An extra pair of eyes were borrowed (Rob Farmer) ~ some twat (me) had set the timing 180' out. Oh how I laughed :blast

Good luck :beerjug:

Andres
 
I’m officially pissed off with the piece of shit Notrun :mad:

, it had big fat sparks from both sides and petrol flowed when I pressed down on the ticklers so it should start. It gave a bit of a fart and that was it. It shouldn’t matter which lead goes to which plug (I’ve got a single coil on it) but I tried swapping them over and nothing. I gave it a slug of easystart and warmed the plugs but still nothing.

If you're sure the timing isn't out then try different spark plugs, I know they're new but modern fuel can kill spark plugs very quickly and once they're dead, they are dead for good. Nothing I've tried seems to bring them back to life. :nenau
 
It’ll be the timing, I know it’ll be the timing and the annoying thing is that I’ve checked it twice and I’ve convinced myself it’s right but I’m also sure I’ve missed something stupidly obvious :blast
 
It’ll be the timing, I know it’ll be the timing and the annoying thing is that I’ve checked it twice and I’ve convinced myself it’s right but I’m also sure I’ve missed something stupidly obvious :blast

Are the plugs still giving good sparks?
 
The sparks are as good as any I’ve seen, you can just dangle them close to the downtubes and the spark bridges it easily with no need to turn the lights off or mess about trying to get them the right angle.

It’s got new Champion plug caps and if I’m trying to pick fault they don’t feel as if they locate as positively as they should but they’re sealed onto the leads and because of the quality of spark I’m reluctant to change them. If I can’t find any issues with the connections to the electronic ignition I might go back to the twin coils which are brand new ones that came with the bike just as a process of elimination.

I’ll also check the valve timing because I’ve never actually checked it for myself and I’ve just relied on the fact that the previous owner had it set up correctly or the valves would be contacting the pistons as I kicked it over.
 
The sparks are as good as any I’ve seen, you can just dangle them close to the downtubes and the spark bridges it easily with no need to turn the lights off or mess about trying to get them the right angle.

It’s got new Champion plug caps and if I’m trying to pick fault they don’t feel as if they locate as positively as they should but they’re sealed onto the leads and because of the quality of spark I’m reluctant to change them. If I can’t find any issues with the connections to the electronic ignition I might go back to the twin coils which are brand new ones that came with the bike just as a process of elimination.

I’ll also check the valve timing because I’ve never actually checked it for myself and I’ve just relied on the fact that the previous owner had it set up correctly or the valves would be contacting the pistons as I kicked it over.

I work on classics for a living. 90% of my work is Norton twins.
Mainly engine and gearbox rebuilds etc

I noticed that your pistons have had pockets machined for the inlet valves.
Stock 850 pistons are flat topped.
Could be an indication that the valve timing has been out and caused problems before.
Incorrect valve timing isnt uncommon as the diagrams in some manuals are misleading.
There should be 10 rollers between the marks on the cam sprocket and intermediate gear.
Also double check your ignition timing remembering that you want the anti clockwise rotation hole on the back plate.
Also worth checking the trigger wires haven't got crossed over between module and trigger plate.
Positive earth can get confusing as well.
If I can be of any help pm me and I will send you my number.
 
Typical day in the office.
A couple of complete rebuilds and a head for complete refurb inc bronze guides and black diamond valves.

Norton rebuilds - Copy-001.jpg

Recent bike build,

IMGP4128bw.jpg
 
Thanks Casper, I might end up getting your number and giving you a call so that’s a very generous offer. I assumed that the pistons were correct but maybe the guy who started the build used different ones because he’d fitted a PW3 camshaft? You must have realised by now that I know less than bugger all about British bikes so everything I touch is new to me and consequently I end up doing everything at least twice simply because I’m not sure if I’ve got it right.

Today’s progress looked good right up until I tried to start it. First off I double checked the wiring to the electronic ignition and I’m convinced it was right but I decided to try something different so whipped out the single coil and fitted the two 6v ones. After checking the wiring numerous times I kicked the bike over and got good sparks again. I rechecked the timing and sure enough at 30 degrees before TDC the magical red dot is bang on where it should be and the adjustment is equal both sides so I’ve got the trigger unit fitted correctly.

Kick, kick again, kick about 20 times and all I got was a pop and a tiny puff of smoke from one silencer. I’ve now narrowed it down to one of two options, either the valve timing is out or I’m just not big enough to give it the mighty hoof and get it to spin fast enough to start :blast

I’ll check the valve timing over the weekend and you’ll all hear the swearing if it’s out and I’ve been wasting my time but looking on the positive side I’m finally starting to learn things about old Nortons.
 
Some things to be aware of.
If you have a PW3 camshaft then the recommended valve clearance is 11 thou.
They are made of chilled iron so if you have to adjust valve timing don't use an impact tool to remove the sprocket nut.
You will most likely snap the end off the cam if you do.
The cam sprocket nut should be loctited and only torqued up to approx 15ft/lbs on a PW3
You will need to check your valve springs are at least 100 thou away from coil bound.
A PW3 cam usually needs the cam follower tunnel machining for clearance.
When you refit your timing cover make sure the oil seal is located on the pump bush.
Otherwise no oil pressure.
Make sure that the intermediate shaft is supported if you adjust the timing chain.
Hope this helps.
 

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Andy, the way you are doing it is the only way to learn...............We all have full confidence in you, and await the melodic sounds of a sweet running Norton...........:D


Casper, can you pm your contact details, as I will be starting to sort my Commando out later in the year,having someone like you so close will be very helpful :thumb
 
Ok then, first thing is to change the valve clearances which are currently set at 6 & 8 thou as per standard settings.

The sprocket nut would certainly have been hit with my Milwaukee cordless impact gun so thanks for the warning on that one. If the nut has had Loctite applied when assembled and doesn’t shift with a 24” breaker bar I’ll warm it up a bit which should crack the Loctite and 15ft/lb isn’t much.

I’ll check the gap between coils on the valve springs when I’m checking the clearances, 100 thou isn’t much and I’ve previously given them a visual check because of the cam being a PW3 so I think they’ll be ok.

It might be waiting until tomorrow because it’s a nice day and I’m tempted to go to the rugby then have a curry in town to soak the beer up after the match :beer:
 
Andy, the way you are doing it is the only way to learn...............We all have full confidence in you, and await the melodic sounds of a sweet running Norton...........:D


Casper, can you pm your contact details, as I will be starting to sort my Commando out later in the year,having someone like you so close will be very helpful :thumb

No worries.
Will do.
 


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