R Nine T issue, or is it just the way the “all” are?

What are those then?


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:augie:D

Had a call again from dealer, very strange this whole thing.

They admit that bike has an issue, meanwhile saying that it isn’t a fault. Letting clutch slightly does let input shaft to line up with a “dog” whatever the hell that is (sounds to me that it is the root of the fault), alternatively “try rocking bike back and forth”, (you’d look like an idiot whilst doing that st the traffic lights) WTF? I replayed to that comment by saying, if I was to buy any BMW car from you and had trouble selecting 1st or reverse gear, would you expect me to get out the car and push it forward or backwards???!!! No surely not was his reply. My comment back was, then why would that be normal with the motorcycle? Wife already vertically challenged, inexperienced rider, on a new to her bike, who has now lost all of the confidence in this dealer as well as BMW brand.

Would anybody want to turn up tomorrow to back us up, Nutty, you in???? It only down the road from you?


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Should have gone to Bahnstormer! If I wasn’t taking my bike for a service tomorrow, I’d come along.:thumb
 
Your customer rights is for a period of 6 years since the transaction. Reasonable deductions can be made for wear and tear against the value of the item.
 
:augie:D



Should have gone to Bahnstormer! If I wasn’t taking my bike for a service tomorrow, I’d come along.:thumb

I did, the bike they had there was to big, which is a shame, but then again she did not want to buy new due to cost. Ultimately it was her choice. Lind in Welwyn had identical bike with similar milage for £1250 more.


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Thank you for your suggestions and a tip-off.

My wife is 5’2” too. Last ride we done for the last two hours on the way home she did not go into neutral once till we got home. Trust me, it was a painful experience for both of us if you know what I mean.

PS: what would cause Dogs not meshing properly?


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See the link here, check post 18 for pics .......... https://www.pnwriders.com/threads/how-do-the-new-downshift-quickshifters-work.199484/

I don't know what dog layout BMW use on the R9T. It could be 3 dogs looking to engage 6 slots in the adjacent gear, or any combo TBH.

There could be damage to the dogs from poor hardening or even production/assembly errors (are these geartrains made in India now?). Equally someone could have accidentally banged the bike into gear clutchless & damaged the dogs, or banged down the box too far creating an over-rev. There could be a problem with the selector fork itself, or the drum. The gear set could have too liitle end float, or more likely way too much being a BMW.

Anyway, whatever the cause, these are issues for Lind to sort out. Make sure the ball sits squarely in their court. The bike is simply not fit for purpose for your good lady.
 
EV there is nothing wrong with your bike at all.On a dry clutch there is no drag therefore sometimes you have to let the clutch out sometimes to cause the shift cogs to move so they can engage sitting and putting it into first gear.Therefore the dry clutch shifts so quiet and doesn't clunk like on a wet clutch.It's all good when you know how it works and how to do it.The R Nine T has probably the best/quietest shifting transmission from all bikes out there !
 
See the link here, check post 18 for pics .......... https://www.pnwriders.com/threads/how-do-the-new-downshift-quickshifters-work.199484/

I don't know what dog layout BMW use on the R9T. It could be 3 dogs looking to engage 6 slots in the adjacent gear, or any combo TBH.

There could be damage to the dogs from poor hardening or even production/assembly errors (are these geartrains made in India now?). Equally someone could have accidentally banged the bike into gear clutchless & damaged the dogs, or banged down the box too far creating an over-rev. There could be a problem with the selector fork itself, or the drum. The gear set could have too liitle end float, or more likely way too much being a BMW.

Anyway, whatever the cause, these are issues for Lind to sort out. Make sure the ball sits squarely in their court. The bike is simply not fit for purpose for your good lady.

So, we took her bike away yesterday, dealer was still suggesting that that’s how bike is. He said in an invent where you would struggle to engage 1st gear, apply small amount of pressure on gear selector then slowly release the clutch until gear has been selected. I am still suggesting that this is not normal and said that we would take it elsewhere for a second opinion and contact them if it is still considered as fault. If it is, then it would be the next step and having to file a complaint directly with BMW and BMW FS.

Wife has been selecting gears as per dealers instructions and it does work, but I am not convinced it is as it really should be. Upon return home after 4.5 hour ride I tried myself and it went into gear every time in the conventional way. Yet to try when bike is stone cold.



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EV there is nothing wrong with your bike at all.On a dry clutch there is no drag therefore sometimes you have to let the clutch out sometimes to cause the shift cogs to move so they can engage sitting and putting it into first gear.Therefore the dry clutch shifts so quiet and doesn't clunk like on a wet clutch.It's all good when you know how it works and how to do it.The R Nine T has probably the best/quietest shifting transmission from all bikes out there !

Thank you for your input, it makes sense what you are saying but I am not convinced it is still right, especially as I rode two R nine T bikes and neither has these Symptoms. That is the reason why I believe bike has manufacturing fault so where within the gearbox.


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So, we took her bike away yesterday, dealer was still suggesting that that’s how bike is. He said in an invent where you would struggle to engage 1st gear, apply small amount of pressure on gear selector then slowly release the clutch until gear has been selected. I am still suggesting that this is not normal and said that we would take it elsewhere for a second opinion and contact them if it is still considered as fault. If it is, then it would be the next step and having to file a complaint directly with BMW and BMW FS.

Wife has been selecting gears as per dealers instructions and it does work, but I am not convinced it is as it really should be. Upon return home after 4.5 hour ride I tried myself and it went into gear every time in the conventional way. Yet to try when bike is stone cold.



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That is exactly how it was on my R-Nine T Scrambler :thumby:
 
Probably during enthusiastic demo ride, who cares what happens to someone else's bike after all, damage was done.

My thought as well. Some ham fisted clown practising wheelie skills or it was loaned to a magazine for a test feature and ridden by half a dozen journos or ex-racers. I've never fancied buying an ex-demo bike as I know how they get ridden.
 
The gearboxes fitted to Bmw bikes from ,
well since forever till the water cooled bikes ,have a dry clutch,same as cars used to have.
When you pull the clutch in,the input shaft stops turning.
Hence when you try and engage 1st gear at a standstill ,IF the gear dogs are not aligned with the slots ,
It won’t go into 1st,end off ,
So, if you let the clutch out and spin the the input shaft,clunk it goes in..
Car gearboxes get around this by using synchromesh hubs instead of dog gears.
The solution is to pull the clutch in and toe it into gear before the input shaft stops spinning..
Might not be what you want to hear,but ,,,,,,,,,,
 
Synchromesh doesn't do away with the dogs, it is a form of clutch, a tapered ring, that sychronises the speed of the two gears just as they are brought into engagement.

Anyway, back to the OPs issue. I thought the dealer had acknowledged that things weren't right with this R9T gearbox. Now he & SWMBO appear to be presented with that good old adage 'they are all like that Sir', which seems to be supported by most of the posts here. To my mind, if the lady aint happy, reject it & move on - otherwise the bike will just languish in the garage, gathering dust & depreciation. There are plenty of other options out there.
 
To be fair it’s a shame BMW didn’t fit synchro to first gear on their premium product.
Mine (08) only clunks into first when cold - a tiny touch of clutch helps it connect but it’s (almost) never really quiet.
On the plus side - after 70K miles, the gearbox drain magnet is never gunged with filings so I’m not too worried.
If you hate it too much then engage first gear & pull the clutch lever before starting the engine.
 
Been to Bahnstormer this afternoon, without telling them what had been said by supplying dealer, technician has confirmed that it is quite normal from as far as one can remember. If that was a symptom on an LC, he’d be concerned. So after all that, wife decided that she is happy with the way bike is. I have no further say in the matter. She’s happy, I am happy.

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions and confirmation.

EV


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