Transferring to NAV - Track to Route with options

redsmartie

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I have done a bit of reading of previous posts and I know it has been covered in parts but without hijacking a post I thought you could indulge me with a conversation on the issue I'm having.

95% of the time I just stick in a destination on the fly (usually a short section i.e. Bala to Porthmadog for instance, or take me home). I ran into a problem when taking my planed routes to the Alps and had to recreate them on the NAV manually. Since then I'm done a bit more research and fully understand waypoint vs shaping points, etc. I'm happy to use Basecamp and also MyRoute-App (more recently). Once I've created the route it ends up on the NAV as a track. I select this and after selecting options it ends up in the Trip Planner.

It may be options and the way of transferring the files that I am getting it wrong but I'm experiencing the following scenarios.

  • If I select the track and I see it calculate the route and stick it in Trip Planner. But regardless of whether I let it do this or tell it not to recalculate in the options I get no voice prompts for the shaping points other than the first waypoint I have set. I want to keep my eyes on the road and not follow a line on a map.
  • Sometimes if I have preselected a track and sent it over to the planner the day before and I select the trip it then both refuses to give me voice prompts, but worse the route is just am 'as the crow flies' starlight line between waypoints and shaping points with only Proceed to X at the top of the screen.
  • I have on occasion triggered the desired behaviour but I don't know how, in that I selected a track, it calculated, I selected it in planner, clicked go and it gave me voice instruction from waypoint to shaping point along the route (even though it did try and drag me back to one shaping point without an onscreen option to skip (but at least the voice was telling me I'd gone wrong).


I have 8 days of routes planned for the NC500 and beyond (I know its hard to get lost on a coast road) and I'd hate to have done all the work only for me to have to abort as I did in the Alps.
 
I suspect that you are importing and running a track, not a route, on your device. From memory a track brings with it no voice instructions, which means you have to just follow the line. You can check whether I’m right or wrong by looking at the screen when you are receiving no voice instructions. Does it display the turn instructions, for instance show that at a roundabout, take the third exit.

As a rule, the straight lines you are seeing are due to the route (or more likely in your case, a track) does not match the maps held on the device. If so, the device will simply join the dots with straight lines. The possible reasons for the detailed maps not being there are various but include:

1. Detailed maps not installed onto the device

2. Detailed maps not selected / activated on the device

3. The device lacking sufficient data (or lacking the computing power) to render the points onto the map, so it defaults to straight lines

Straight lines can also be displayed if the device’s settings (preferences) are set so that the device will only display straight lines

If I really had to guess, your woes not about the maps but are all down to your running of a track not a route.

This belief is, I think, supported in that you tell us that your device works just fine when you ask it to create a short route to get you from A to B, Bala to Porthmadoc in your example. The device does just that, it creates you a route not, a track. It’s when you yourself (not the device) create a track to import into the device that your problems appear to start. This problem may be compounded when you introduce third party software into the process, being your use of the My Route app.
 
I'm only using the tracks to select for conversion to routes on the NAV. I've tried a combination of things including the option to show track on the map and I've had both automatic calculation turned on and off when I've been doing the conversion. I'm at the stage where I've tried so many things and had so many different results I need to take a step back and regroup.

One odd thing I have noticed is that when I select the track and convert to a route in the planner it shows all the way points and shaping points but subsequent attempts to repeat just bring up a start and finish.

I take your point on the matching of the map. I have been using the MyRoute-App and connector and while I have seen the option to switch to the Garmin map I think the next safest option would be to use the convenience of the online mapping but upload the route/track using basecamp only after it has done a calculation on the NAV installed map that I also have installed on the local computer.

It would help if I knew exactly what to expect... my ideal workflow would be.

  1. Create route with waypoints and shaping points
  2. Upload to device
  3. Select the route in planner
  4. Set the starting position (does this always have to be the start or can it be, for instance, a midway point in case I have to restart the route midway?)
  5. Allow for voice prompts to waypoints or shaping points (I know that shaping points will not be announced on arrival but will show as 'proceed to....' at the top of the display)
  6. Allow recalculation and prompts should I stray from the route
  7. Be able to skip a waypoint or shaping point should I have passed one en-route rather than have it drag me back

I really I need to be sorted before my next trip as I can't be faffing around with the NAV when I have three other riders sat behind me. Its not the easiest thing to soft as every time it doesn't work as expected I have to start again which may involve a trip home to use the computer and upload from fresh.

Your help is, as always, very much appreciated.
 
You can all of the things you want to do - and more - if you just keep it simple. Create the track, use BaseCamp or Mapsource to convert it to a route and export that to your device. Better still, cut out the third party software. Build your routes on your PC in either Mapsource or BaseCamp and it will all work. I promise.
 
I'm ok with Basecamp even though I'm trialling the MyRoute-App. I am concerned that I'm doing something wrong on the NAV regardless. I was gutted when I spent months planning the Alps routes only to get out there and it ballsed up. I ended up manually typing waypoints on villages directly into the NAV every evening. I'd hate for the same to happen again.

So, to recap. I'm going to create my routes (for arguments sake in Basecamp). Transfer them to the device. Select them in tracks and send them to Trip Planner. Open them in the planner, selecting start to finish with my next destination the next waypoint (not the end destination that is displayed, since it just shows these as my next destination), and GO!

The only other hypothetical scenario is if I was beyond the start and I wanted the second waypoint to be the start, would it give me the option or would I have to select the first waypoint and then skip it after selecting go? (is that the button that pops up above the cancel route red X on the display?)
 
Or plot the route in Google maps and then put the url of the route into GPSVisualizer to get a GPX file.
Like so:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nE0aiFE60xY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Or plot the route in Google maps and then put the url of the route into GPSVisualizer to get a GPX file.

I'm pretty sure at this stage that my route planning is good up until I get to the point of transfer and selection on the device. I've just been playing with my routes as a GPX1.1 loaded into Basecamp. The info looks sound with start, end and waypoints (some silent shaping).

Its what happens next. I can see that using Basecamp the conversion to route can be done at that point and if not the track can be selected on the device and calculated.

Its at that point I'm getting the inconsistency (which I am happy to accept is down to my choices).
 
It also depends on what nav you are using. When your nav is connected to Basecamp you can create a route, and drag and drop it onto your nav.
On my old one a Garmin 1490 ( ? ) I had to go to "Data" and "Import" even though the file I had sent was already on there. On my Nav 6 it automatically goes into the trip planner.

You wont however get voice prompts from a "track", there is no data for it. You will only get prompts from "Via Points" created in BC.

Make sure you create a route from your tracks before transferring to your nav, that should help. Do as I do, make a dummy route to try first before you go to make sure your nav does what you want, doesn't need to be far just a trip around the block!

If you struggle with BC also worth a look is Kurviger.com fairly straight forward for route planning
 
I'm using NAV5. I don't struggle with Basecamp but I do like planning on MyRouteApp since I can see more POI's on the Google map.

The main difference is rear MRA sends a GPX1.1 file that needs sending from tracks to the planner (it calculates but I think the straight line event was that on one instance it didn't calculate on the device) whereas BC does the calculation beforehand and sends directly to the Trip Planner.

With reference to voice prompts on the occasion I had the problem I'd set out from home with prompts then she stopped talking to me. Its a good job at that point I knew where I was going.

I will need to do some testing to be confident, its just a PITA jumping off the bike with the VAV, connecting to the computer and running back out again for another attempt.
 
I tend to create a route in Basecamp and then create a track from my route also in Basecamp (the track for me is simply a reference line of my route when i am riding along the route).
I then send the GPX file to my Zumo 590 that has both route and track.

I can then apply the track to the map (as an overlay black line) and check the route has transferred intact (not recalculated differently) in trip planner.

I think your issues are trying to get the device to build a route from your track, its probably not the best method to get an accurate route built.
 
Without going away from the main problem I also referred to options in my OP. While reading up on my issues there is plenty of reference to not having automatic recalculation turned on. What are the pros and cons of this. Will it really screw up a route to have it on? What happens if you have any form of obstruction? I would have thought that you would want automatic rerouting to the next waypoint or shaping point?
 
Without going away from the main problem I also referred to options in my OP. While reading up on my issues there is plenty of reference to not having automatic recalculation turned on. What are the pros and cons of this. Will it really screw up a route to have it on? What happens if you have any form of obstruction? I would have thought that you would want automatic rerouting to the next waypoint or shaping point?

If you send a track to the Nav V, and then get it to turn the track into a route, you know from your own experiments that a recalculation of a route-from-a-track will lose the shape of the original track. So if you have auto-recalc on, you are going to lose your carefully planned journey, and you will end up with fastest/shortest/curvy route to the final destination (depending on the Nav V setings). There are many posts on here about what happens in a recalculation, but in essence progressively more information is lost. Your route-from-track is entirely 'ghost' points and these are the first ones lost in recalculation. All that is left are the start and end points. When you create a route in Basecamp you not only have these ghost points but also the announced and unannounced via (or shaping) points. These additional points help keep your recalculated route pinned to the roads you actually want to ride.

You are MUCH better to work with a route sent from Basecamp to the Nav V. Have start and end waypoints, and place an announced via point a short way into your route. This way, when you start the route on the Nav V you can set the device to take you to this announced point. Carry on past this point and the route iwll be running and giving you voice directions. As you are running a route, you can let it recalculate and it will take you to the next via point on the route. Personally, I usually have auto-recalc turned off and if I get diverted I use the (2-D) map display to ride around and back to my planned route.

If you wish you can get Basecamp to create a track from a route, and transfer the track to the Nav V as well as the route. As explained above, you can have the route and the track on display, but you will only get voice directions for the route.

Finally, my usual method for transferring routes, tracks etc. from Basecamp to the Nav V is to use the Basecamp export function, export to a gpx file and then copy this file to the folder <root>/garmin/gpx on the SD card. You then import the data into the trip planner. If everything goes tits-up you can reimport - multiple times if necessary. You can also save the exported GPX file in Dropbox or whatever, for 'emergency' access on your trip.
 
My recalculate is set to prompted rather than auto in fact i'm considering turning it off altogether, if it prompts me to recalculate i generally select "No" and navigate my own way back onto the route which is usually very easy sometimes involves stopping and zooming out the map a little. Only if i have taken a wrong motorway junction will i select "yes".

From experience I just don't trust the auto recalculate, it can send you the fastest way to the next shaping/waypoint which is fine, however sometimes you can be sent on some strange routes to get there.
 
This again is something that I had experienced at the weekend however it was compounded by the fact I wasn't getting the voice prompts. At this point I didn't have recall on and I was having to constantly glance at the map. I saw a turn coming up but thought it was one 50 yards prior to the one it wanted me to go down. I checked for any traffic that might want to kill me before making the turn and then glanced down and the route had gone. At that point I turned on the auto recall so that it would show me the way back, but from what you are saying I'd then screwed everything ups and was just left with a single way point - the destination.

I'm bloody glad that the NC500 is a coastal run.. I'm going anti-clockwise so at least I can just make sure that the water is to my right.
 
I'm really not as stupid as I sound.. Its just that having a group of riders asking why the f**k we aren't going anywhere at the side of the road while I'm shouting that "I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE!", desperately mashing the NAV screen, isn't the ideal situation (from experience) :)
 
The fellow likes to build his route (which is a track) outside of Garmin’s software, in MyRoutApp.

Inevitably MRA creates a track, I guess in a .gpx format, which he then exports to the device for it to do the conversion into a route.

It would be easiest if:

1. Everything is done from BaseCamp / Mapsource from the get-go.

2. If the route / track has to be created on non-Garmin software, it is converted into a fully fledged route first in either BaseCamp or Mapsource and that then sent to the device

As to why the fellow cannot hear voice instructions might be as simple as his headset wasn’t working. But that can be dealt with in the communications section as it’s a whole different kettle of fish.

To be honest, there are so many variables in the chap’s way of working, it - coupled to leading impatient bods about - is all but certain to create problems. My advice remains, keep it simple whilst you learn.
 
My advice remains, keep it simple whilst you learn.

This is what I'm trying to do but as the next screenshot shows, If I'm going to get it wrong I can do a monumental job (purple plan, vs actual)
 

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My advice is:

1. stop buggering about with My Route app
2. stop buggering about creating routes from tracks. Just create routes.
3. learn to use Basecamp. There are numerous descriptions on here and elsewhere.
4. once you know and understand how your Nav V works with routes created in Basecamp then you can make an informed judgement about other s/w such as My Route App.

Lots of others are doing exactly as you are doing, but in my experience the ones who have the fewest problems are the people that use Garmin software with Garmin satnavs and take the time to learn the system.
 
I'm really not as stupid as I sound.. Its just that having a group of riders asking why the f**k we aren't going anywhere at the side of the road while I'm shouting that "I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE!", desperately mashing the NAV screen, isn't the ideal situation (from experience) :)

Don't stress why you aren't going anywhere its all part of the fun, if your biking mates are relying on you perhaps get them to have a stab at routing let them take the heat.

As Wapping and Tomcat are implying try to use Basecamp or Mapsource in a better way, have a look on youtube tutorials, here you go http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/455445-Some-good-BaseCamp-tutorial-videos
 

Ah, those videos were exactly what I needed. Its the clean sheet I needed. I'm doing exactly as is shown. As I said I don't have a problem with Basecamp and I just needed to make sure that everyone is doing the same.

I can now see the the problem I'm having is down to the transfer to NAV, the recalculation settings, but more importantly the way I'm handling the running of the route on the NAV at the time.

Proof will be in the tests I'll run before the big trips but I'm happy that I know what to ignore if something goes not as expected.
 


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