Dynojet Power Commander V BMW R1200 GS 2013-2016... do these things work?

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will this do the same as a HT adjustment?... anyone had both??
 
need to have a full read, but guess they are not plug and play... you'd need to have them set on a dyno, so will cost more in the long run....

good few post on pre-LC about them... 2015 bike?... does the ECU tend to map them out again?
 
will this do the same as a HT adjustment?... anyone had both??

Yes and no.

It will add more fuel to the engine, but the criteria for how much more at any given setting are different.

I say different, even though HT does not advertise what they do to the engine. but whatever HT do, it probably ads more fuel, as does the PCV. But HT claims that the engine will keep its ability to adapt to different cans etc. which means the HT job still relies on feedback from the O2 sensors (the O2 sensor is the only source for a feedback of richness of fuel), while the PCV will run the engine in a continous loop.

To get more power to the engine, the engine needs more air, thus, either choice will only give the extra power that you get from supplying a bit extra fuel to utilize unused oxygen molecules at any given time).

The PCV requires the disconnecting of the O2 sensors. This means its based on adding fuel based on a map only (unless you add Autotune). Unless you use a Dyno run, a generic map will have to do.

It boils down to the following:
-- Both options gives the engine more fuel for smoother running.
-- HT is hidden, no external parts. PCV adds extra components.
-- HT is harder to remove, while PCV is simple to remove (for whatever reason)
-- HT will probably give only the extra fuel needed, expect PCV to give extra fuel, and then some (unless you add Autotune).

Not part of the question, there is the third choice, AF-XIED, that will probably perform as HT, but also requires external mounting.

Next question: Adding both.
That would be a mess and a total waste of money.
 
Hi Knutk and thanks for your reply...

Had AF-XIED on my 2010 TC.. but not the right issue to put on the LC... was going HT, but then seen a PC on E-bat for £120.. so got me thinking...
Do like the HT fix if I'm honest... but have been talking with them about doing the ECU for a few weeks now... planed a tour to the Triumph factory, night away and so on to do it next Friday... only to be told now that they are closing that Friday and weekend!.. Bugger.. so if I want HT will have to post my ECU or go another time....
Not seen and AF-XIED reports on LC's (will look)... may be the way to go?... any experiance of these on the LC motor?
 
need to have a full read, but guess they are not plug and play... you'd need to have them set on a dyno, so will cost more in the long run....

good few post on pre-LC about them... 2015 bike?... does the ECU tend to map them out again?

They are plug and play and will come pre-installed with the stock map for the standard bike or whichever one you choose at time of order. It's easy to download additional maps via their website, and also upload any changes you make to the map straight to the PC (loads of guides on YouTube), simply plug in a laptop and you can change the maps at will.
There is no need to Dyno a power commander, some do, some don't, I've installed these on my last 4 GS's and the difference over stock is significant even with the PC pre-installed map.
The ECU does nothing to affect the PC set up after installation.
 
Power Commander can add or lessen fuel anywhere on the fuel table. It doesn't necessarily 'add' fuel.

But - the stock maps by Dynojet are pretty 'safe', in that they oversupply fuel - so it is best to get the bike set up on a dyno once fitted.

Al
 
may be good to play with... would be good to use the existing as a base line ... have a O2 meter also, so could try get the AFR bob-on over the full range?
 
Yes they work
No you don't need a dyno tune, pick a map from the same setup.
If you wish you can still run O2 sensors and even better they are wide band so far better than stock. (edit) this is extra kit and extra cost but can also be used to auto tune.
If you change your setup you can load another map at no extra cost assuming you do it yourself.
 
so as std they don't use existing O2's ?... will try find some reading on this... cheers
 
No because stock O2 or lambda sensors are for emissions and not performance. It is them that are responsible for what everyone thinks of as running lean. It's a lot more complicated than that but you will get the idea. You don't care about emissions though because if you did you wouldn't be screwing with your bikes fuel and exhaust system. Stock O2 sensors also only work in a very limited air fuel ratio as well hence the name narrow band.
 
PC makes the BMS run in a continous Open Loop mode, and a map built into the PC adds extra fuel. If your airfilter clogs up or you change to a different can the fueling will not automatically be adjusted. You may find a different map that compensates, but in my book this is a bit "happy go lucky" way of doing things. If you add the Autotune the PC will compensate, but BMS are still running in Open Loop mode, and there will be a continous fault code in the system. Most likely the engine will still run ok, but unless you add Autotune the fueling will be "add fuel, and then some". No refinement. And I know some people that experience soot buildup in the engine due to too much fuel when using the PC.

AF-XIED, and I think HT, leaves the BMS in closed loop when it's supposed to, and it will not kick a fault code. By doing the O2 manipulation route you get a very controlled adding of fuel that ensures that the engine get "the little extra", no more, no less. I KNOW the AF-XIED does it, and based on the statements from HT I suspect their way gives a similar result (since the claim that they keep the adaption).

The LC engine works fine with O2 manipulation. I've been driving mine now since the start of this season with positive result, and I understand the AF-XIED is also now working with Euro-4 LC engine, and they plan to open for sale again shortly. Hopefully @Roger04RT will chime in.

I notice that some people push the PC as a power enhancer. But in reality, as long as you only add fuel and not oxygen, once alle oxygen molecules are mixed with fuel, any extra fuel is a total waste. And since the engine is already running AFR 14,7 +/- and all oxygen is used by the time you reach 13,5-ish AFR, the power increase is limited. However, you will notice a smoother running engine. And the engine will feel a bit more spirited. Since the burnrate of air/fuel mix differs with AFR, technically, you may benefit from adjusting the timing as well, but frankly I would not expect much difference when going from 14,7 to 13,5.
 
I notice that some people push the PC as a power enhancer. But in reality, as long as you only add fuel and not oxygen, once alle oxygen molecules are mixed with fuel, any extra fuel is a total waste. And since the engine is already running AFR 14,7 +/- and all oxygen is used by the time you reach 13,5-ish AFR, the power increase is limited. However, you will notice a smoother running engine. And the engine will feel a bit more spirited. Since the burnrate of air/fuel mix differs with AFR, technically, you may benefit from adjusting the timing as well, but frankly I would not expect much difference when going from 14,7 to 13,5.

You are correct but don't single out the PC in your statement. Every form of remapping whether PC, direct ecu flash or ax is in exactly the same situation unless you do some form of mechanical tunning as well. The simple fact is, you can only get so much gain through altering fuel which kinda puts some of the claims seen elsewhere into perspective!
 
You are correct but don't single out the PC in your statement. Every form of remapping whether PC, direct ecu flash or ax is in exactly the same situation unless you do some form of mechanical tunning as well. The simple fact is, you can only get so much gain through altering fuel which kinda puts some of the claims seen elsewhere into perspective!

I do agree.

The OP started by asking about Power commander versus Hill Top tuning, and yours truly added the AF-XIED into the discussion.

I singled out Power Commander in my latest comment as Power commander them selvs promote it as "Peak Performance, Street Approved" suggesting focus on power rather than improved drivability with less focus on performance.
While there are several claims about increased performance after a HT-job, HT on their website tone down the power part and emphasise on a smoother running engine, as does AF-XIED.

But for all practical purpose, they all improves the way the engine runs with a slight improved performance du to the slightly richer fueling.

What separates the stand alone PC V from the others mentioned here is that the PC V adds fuel based solely on a map while the other two adds fuel based on feed back from O2 sensor (I know the AF-XIED does, and I belive the HT does). avoiding "over fuelling".
A friend of mine put a PC in his 1150 RT, and while it improved the way the engine ran (he was very happy with it) , it also left black soot at the end of the muffler and fuel consumption increased by almost 10%.
This compared to the O2 shifting on my bike (1200 GSA LC) that also makes the engine run smoother, and fuel consumption has been reduced by 7%.
 
Ok.. thanks for your input on this one and other bits I've been reading.. So I think I need to chose between HT and AX... AX you can take with you, but its visable... HT you can't, but its not visable...
TBH I don't think I'll change this bike for a while, so it comes back to the way I was thinking in the first place... So will have to see when HT can fit's me in.. Thanks Again..
 
Hi Knutk and thanks for your reply...

Had AF-XIED on my 2010 TC.. but not the right issue to put on the LC... was going HT, but then seen a PC on E-bat for £120.. so got me thinking...
Do like the HT fix if I'm honest... but have been talking with them about doing the ECU for a few weeks now... planed a tour to the Triumph factory, night away and so on to do it next Friday... only to be told now that they are closing that Friday and weekend!.. Bugger.. so if I want HT will have to post my ECU or go another time....
Not seen and AF-XIED reports on LC's (will look)... may be the way to go?... any experiance of these on the LC motor?

The AF-XIED from your TC will work the same with your LC as soon as Nightrider.com has the “adapter module”. He has shipped a half dozen adapters so far and the fix looks good. I’m guessing he will start selling them fairly soon.

When I added AF-XIED to my 2017 R1200 LC, I got more torque from idle to half throttle, better take-off from stopped, better performance of gearshift pro shifting and started running one higher gear in general. It’s a great addition.
 
Yes.. I did mail about an adaptor or upgrading... Only reply I got was the issue level would not work with the LCs... So I sold them on.... Now as you say, it looks like they are doing some interface kit!
 


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