VRT question

Mullabrack · Jul 11, 2018

Guy from cork was interested in a bike I was selling but as it has only 1800 miles from new (2015) he says you have to pay full VRT and full vat as Revenue deem the vehicle to be new if it has less than 6000kms on it. Assuming this is correct is there no way round this (legally!!) for the buyer?
Your thoughts would be must welcome...

younger06 · Jul 11, 2018

Mullabrack said:
Guy from cork was interested in a bike I was selling but as it has only 1800 miles from new (2015) he says you have to pay full VRT and full vat as Revenue deem the vehicle to be new if it has less than 6000kms on it. Assuming this is correct is there no way round this (legally!!) for the buyer?
Your thoughts would be must welcome...

"legally" for the buyer.........the clock gets checked by the official in the VRT centre when the bike is being checked/assessed.
If there is 4000 odd miles on the odometer at the time, everything will be cushty.

Sent from a U11

JJH · Jul 11, 2018

Revenue.ie have a vrt calculator. If you post up full details I’ll try and find out. JJH

younger06 · Jul 11, 2018

If the bike has less than 6000kms on it.......it gets treated as a new bike and will be liable for VAT and duty as well........... "I think"

Best option (IMHO) would be to have the odometer repaired to show the correct mileage........prior to bringing it to the VRT people.

Sent from a U11

macker1974 · Jul 11, 2018

Mullabrack said:
Guy from cork was interested in a bike I was selling but as it has only 1800 miles from new (2015) he says you have to pay full VRT and full vat as Revenue deem the vehicle to be new if it has less than 6000kms on it. Assuming this is correct is there no way round this (legally!!) for the buyer?
Your thoughts would be must welcome...

This is correct. Under eu vat rules any vehicle with less than 6000km is deemed to be new for vat purposes irrespective of age. The law was intended to capture “almost new” vehicles but unfortunately low mileage vehicles if any age get caught up in it which is crazy but true.
The VRT will be as per any bike if it’s age but the vat will most likely ruin the value of the bike for the buyer.

JJH · Jul 11, 2018

I’m not 100% on this. Is vat on the ornigal price or do you pay vat on the vrt? I ask because I thought that once vat is payed in the EU it couldn’t be changed again. JJH

Mullabrack · Jul 11, 2018

Either way it seems to have scuppered my sale. Now, “correcting” the speedo is a novel idea providing it could be “corrected” again after inspection! It does seem a strange rule when the bike is 3yrs old but then Gov officials are a strange bunch unless there is some on here in which case your still a strange bunch!!
Thanks for all the replies guys..

Rgs

GerryC · Jul 11, 2018

If I were the interested ROI buyer I'd go ahead & deal - taking the scenic way home & have the requisite 6,000K (or imperial equivalent) on the clock for the VRT appointment. But then I'm not the same as everyone else..........

JJH · Jul 11, 2018

There is no way I’d try and dodge vrt. If they find out the penalties are draconian. And their powers are far reaching. JJH

GerryC · Jul 11, 2018

I'm not advocating dodging VRT - I'm suggesting the scenic route to the VRT destination.

Mullabrack · Jul 11, 2018

4200 miles! Some scenic route Gerry but I like your thinking..

GerryC · Jul 11, 2018

1,928 miles will do it.
6,000K = 3728M
3728 - 1800 = a nice scenic ride.
Lateral thinking rules.

macker1974 · Jul 11, 2018

JJH said:
I’m not 100% on this. Is vat on the ornigal price or do you pay vat on the vrt? I ask because I thought that once vat is payed in the EU it couldn’t be changed again. JJH

You’re right in what you say John - vat need only be paid once in EU - EXCEPT where less than 6 mths / 6,000km.
I thought it was another wonderful irish vat rule until I investigated and found it to be the case in Europe also.
Vat is not chargeable in the vrt element however. It’s on the market value ex vrt. The price of all vat qualifying vehicles in Ireland works on a nett price, +VAT and then + VRT.

the civil one · Jul 12, 2018

Mullabrack said:
Guy from cork was interested in a bike I was selling but as it has only 1800 miles from new (2015) he says you have to pay full VRT and full vat as Revenue deem the vehicle to be new if it has less than 6000kms on it. Assuming this is correct is there no way round this (legally!!) for the buyer?
Your thoughts would be must welcome...

If you can prove that the initial purchase was a domestic purchase then tihs is not the case. I.E. Prove the initial vat was paid.
I have all the details you need to challenge this. It may be the Case that you pay , but you will get a Full refund.

luke scott · Jul 12, 2018

the civil one said:
If you can prove that the initial purchase was a domestic purchase then tihs is not the case. I.E. Prove the initial vat was paid.
I have all the details you need to challenge this. It may be the Case that you pay , but you will get a Full refund.

Civil is wrong. There hasn't been a single case where vat has not been charged in sub 6,000 km vehicles. More Donegal Billox. Just get the seller and buyer to ride the bike to put up the mileage.

the civil one · Jul 13, 2018

luke scott said:
Civil is wrong. There hasn't been a single case where vat has not been charged in sub 6,000 km vehicles. More Donegal Billox. Just get the seller and buyer to ride the bike to put up the mileage.

Civil is right. And i have the paper work to prove it.
I have every single document to prove i got a Full Refund.

luke scott · Jul 13, 2018

the civil one said:
Civil is right. And i have the paper work to prove it.
I have every single document to prove i got a Full Refund.

Well then I am wrong and will accept that. But you had to pay it even though it had been paid previously ? And then you reclaimed it ?

Colm Cummins · Jul 13, 2018

Please tell us how to reclaim VRT, as I have paid a fortune in VRT over the years

the civil one · Jul 13, 2018

Colm Cummins said:
Please tell us how to reclaim VRT, as I have paid a fortune in VRT over the years

Colm , Over the years i too have paid waaaaayyyyy tooooo much , it used to be import duties , now its VRT ..
Every time i pay it i think it will be a great day , when someone cracks that the Irish State is illegally charging an import duty .
With all the shinannigans going on with Brexit , i am constantly hearing about the core values , of Free movement of Goods and services ,, and think WTF.........

But , We are not talking about VRT , we are talking about NMT , new means of transport , or when a vehicle is less than 6 months old or has less
than 6000Klms recorded.
There are a couple of Caveats to this . The Vehicle is EITHER older than 6 months old OR has covered less than 6000Klms.
The European law that very clearly states you cannot pay VAT on any goods Twice.
In my case i presented the Bike to pay Import duties , and was charged N.M.T. as well , which i refused to do.
I was given formal notice of intent to seize , within the 30 day rule . I had not put my case forward in time because i had only started to investigate the
circumstances , so had no choice but to pay VRT & NMT. When i had my case read , i presented a Case put forward by H.M.R.C. and was given a
full refund of NMT . Not a Cent off import duty .

macker1974 · Jul 14, 2018

the civil one said:
Colm , Over the years i too have paid waaaaayyyyy tooooo much , it used to be import duties , now its VRT ..
Every time i pay it i think it will be a great day , when someone cracks that the Irish State is illegally charging an import duty .
With all the shinannigans going on with Brexit , i am constantly hearing about the core values , of Free movement of Goods and services ,, and think WTF.........

But , We are not talking about VRT , we are talking about NMT , new means of transport , or when a vehicle is less than 6 months old or has less
than 6000Klms recorded.
There are a couple of Caveats to this . The Vehicle is EITHER older than 6 months old OR has covered less than 6000Klms.
The European law that very clearly states you cannot pay VAT on any goods Twice.
In my case i presented the Bike to pay Import duties , and was charged N.M.T. as well , which i refused to do.
I was given formal notice of intent to seize , within the 30 day rule . I had not put my case forward in time because i had only started to investigate the
circumstances , so had no choice but to pay VRT & NMT. When i had my case read , i presented a Case put forward by H.M.R.C. and was given a
full refund of NMT . Not a Cent off import duty .

Congratulations civil. You have succeeded where so many others have failed!
I’m a motor dealer, but am fortunate to also have a law degree (long story!) I’d love if you would give me the details of your case and the precedent in the uk that you relied on to succeed.
The legislation relating to the 6k km / 6 month rule is a European directive as opposed to a domestic law. It is simply the basis for what defines a “new” vehicle for the purposes of EU vat.
Your success should be heralded as a landmark case and victory over Europe the like of which brexiteers can only dream of!
Please give us the details ASAP so all can benefit from your case.

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