Rough running issue - Still not bloody sorted.....

What petrol are you putting in it?

Avoid supermarket pumps.
People say that petrol could go stale if over 6 weeks sitting around.

Try Shell V Power; 99 octane.
Fill tank when almost empty.
My oilhead runs noticeably better on this than on standard unleaded.

Plus Redex seemed to help as well.

Another suggestion, when tank is nearly empty, try Aspen4T; synthetic petrol. Very good in 2 stroke chain saws etc (Aspen 2T in these though).
Doesn’t go stale for years.
Costs the earth, £20 for 5L approx, but may be worth a punt as a diagnostic test.

Good luck.

Always 97 Ron and two tanks of fuel additive so far, also done carb cleaner through the bell mouths.
 
What petrol are you putting in it?

Avoid supermarket pumps.
People say that petrol could go stale if over 6 weeks sitting around.

Try Shell V Power; 99 octane.
Fill tank when almost empty.
My oilhead runs noticeably better on this than on standard unleaded.

Plus Redex seemed to help as well.

Another suggestion, when tank is nearly empty, try Aspen4T; synthetic petrol. Very good in 2 stroke chain saws etc (Aspen 2T in these though).
Doesn’t go stale for years.
Costs the earth, £20 for 5L approx, but may be worth a punt as a diagnostic test.

Good luck.

Always 97 Ron and two tanks of fuel additive so far, also done carb cleaner through the bell mouths. Also use the bike everyday for commuting 150 miles total so fuel being stale in the tank is no issue.
 
Fwiw I replaced my TPS with a brand new Hella item and after rebalancing my throttle bodies my bike has never run better. My old TPS seemed fine 0-100% as live data on GS911 but I had a few incidents where my bike just wouldn’t catch when starting until TPS was reset. Anecdotal I know but a new TPS worked for me, £40 well spent.


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Did this start suddenly or has it always been there??

I am wondering is the balance shaft timed correctly ???


Also Did you ever do a compression test on this engine?

P.S. Remember to also remove the Lower coil stick connectors before spinning the motor over !!!!
 
Without wishing to start yet another remap thread, it’s quite possible that a rolling road optimisation of the ecu fuel and ignition curves might be of great benefit once you eliminate all other issues.


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Hey Santa,

t still could be the TPS - cleaning it isnt always the magic fix, if the track is too far gone, nothing short of a new one will rectify it. New item on it's way.

Going back to basics
And we may cover old ground - sorry

Ignoring the TPS

What are the symptoms in detail

How fast/ slow are you going? 70 and above.

Full or part throttle. Part throttle at around 70 although remains the symptoms remain constant above.

What gear how warm / cold. is the bike. 6th gear and fully warm.

Does it do it under load or no load Does it cruising, accelerating.

When you start the bike does it need throttle? does it idle ? at what RPM. No need for throttle, idles fine from memory 1.2/ 1.5 around but not definite.

what does it idle at when warm. No idea at the moment but idles fine with no issues.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
How many miles has the bike done 60.000 miles.
When were the plugs / oil / airfilter changed. All changed recently and at intervals but the original symptoms remain, just got worse recently since working on it and majorly since messing with the TPS.
Throttle cable slack checked. No.
Adaptations cleared No.
Stepper motors synced / adjusted. No.

Untill youve put a known good TPS on the bike, you cant rule that out completley

have you tried running the bike with the primary & secondary coils disconnected? what was the result. Yes, with secondary coils removed the bike was running at idle but not taken on the road the bike still ran ok. Disconnected one primary at a time and noticed a difference each side so do not believe that the coils are at fault. Two new primary coils were previously fitted and two second hand secondary's were fitted (newer type with grey ends).

If I understand this information correctly, this means that the problem starts to show when the engine is loaded. Loaded as in needing high fuel flow.

May be a silly question, and I may have missed some information given in earlier postings: Is the fuel pump able to supply sufficient amount of fuel? There is a fuel filter in the tank. Has it been checked for not being clogged?
 
If I understand this information correctly, this means that the problem starts to show when the engine is loaded. Loaded as in needing high fuel flow.

May be a silly question, and I may have missed some information given in earlier postings: Is the fuel pump able to supply sufficient amount of fuel? There is a fuel filter in the tank. Has it been checked for not being clogged?

This issue has always been present since owning the bike for two years now. A new fuel pump has been fitted with the new new fuel filter. The issue has got worse since working on the TPS.
 
Fwiw I replaced my TPS with a brand new Hella item and after rebalancing my throttle bodies my bike has never run better. My old TPS seemed fine 0-100% as live data on GS911 but I had a few incidents where my bike just wouldn’t catch when starting until TPS was reset. Anecdotal I know but a new TPS worked for me, £40 well spent.


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I hope this is the same as my bike, I cleaned the TPS and refitted and all looked good visually then tested on the GS911 and everything does seem fine with the old TPS. My old TPS has the same values as my second hand TPS so hopefully a new item will sort it out.
 
I hope this is the same as my bike, I cleaned the TPS and refitted and all looked good visually then tested on the GS911 and everything does seem fine with the old TPS. My old TPS has the same values as my second hand TPS so hopefully a new item will sort it out.

Hm.. Seems like pretty much every possible option has been dealt with, the components are replaced or checked and found to be in good order. Perhaps the problem is to be found elsewhere, such as a partly clogged fuel line, obstructions in the air intake, leaky shafts for the butterfly valves or that type of a problem?
 
Another thing that I believe improved my bike significantly prior to my TPS change, was fitting a pair of BERU secondary stick coils. I got the coils from M&P they are the chrome/stainless looking ones at about £90 each, the angle of offset was slightly wrong despite being sold as suitable for K25 Hexheads but they fitted. I believe the older coils can eventually break down under load so despite seeming okay at idle, they may produce a weak spark during sustained higher RPM at increased cylinder pressures. The steel jackets of my old grey topped secondary coils were rusting beneath the rubber sleeves and delaminating, no surprise really when you see the environment they work in.
 
Have you checked cam timing on both cylinders ? Is there a possibility that a previous owner may have had a head off and not timed the bike properly when re-installing ?
 
been doing some homework

Bosch BMS-K PLUS R1200GS coding index 02

;;ZL_System: MX-Y.Z
;;ZL_Projekt: NG4/N62/N73
;;ZL_Referenz: 00877201330I
;;KA_Bearbeiter: Frank


;;K_File-Name: 7717143A.0pa
;;K_Stand: 10.12.2007
;;KA_Freigabedatum: 17.12.2007
Fast. runs like a dog below 3.5k rpm, creates knock in the summer at 6300 rpm


;;K_File-Name: 7717148A.0pa
;;K_Stand: 12.12.2007
;;KA_Freigabedatum: 17.12.2007


;;K_File-Name: 7719873A.0pa
;;K_Stand: 07.04.2008
;;KA_Freigabedatum: 05.05.2008
Garbage, smoother for moped riders, rich as hell in the cold, after 60% throttle gives up at 4300 to 4900 rpm and flat as hell after 6000... might as well be 800cc


;;K_File-Name: 7719875A.0pa
;;K_Stand: 07.04.2008
;;KA_Freigabedatum: 05.05.2008

not sure what the ones he did around the same time offer (support for rubbish petrol / other countries ?)

interesting link
https://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/r...&resellername=&projekttyp=&search=00877201330
 
Cheapest one i can see on the bay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Throttle...h=item3ae6e7b88f:g:h64AAOSwsW9Y0MYO:rk:2:pf:0

it's basically an unmarked Hella unit

Hi - Alwyn here and new to the Forum - Just wanted to say that the quoted comment just saved me over £100 for a TPS compared to dealer price and sorted my bikes rough idle and stall issues when warm.

£12 Subscription already paid off for next couple of years

thanks

Hope the OP got some resolution too.

alwyn
 
Go Back to Basics, valves checked and adjusted, exhaust clamps tight with no leaks / no blowing, check colour of plugs are any black indicating running rich which can be caused by sticking butterfly flaps in throttle bodies ? replace plugs if necessary, air filter changed / clean? start bike, squirt wd40 around rubber seals of throttle bodies, if engine idle changes you have an air leak, split hose or perished throttle body seal, if have access to a g911 diagnostic tool, reset adaptations, check throttle bodies cable free play (5mm or so), if have g911 tool synchronise throttle bodies using a "carbtune" vac gauge, if cannot synchronise throttle bodies and vac readings are way out, remove throttle bodies and clean out any debris / sludge with carb cleaner, supermarket fuel with ethanol in gums up the butterfly flaps in the throttle bodies, causing flaps to stick and make the engine run rough and also makes synchronising impossible. When that is completed use g911 and view real time data, especially look at each cylinder temperature (both should be within 3 or 5 deg c of each other, look at the lamda sensor (O2) readings, they should be similar. If no g911 available, suggest remove and clean throttle bodies, refit, check the throttle cable cams move easily, adjust each throttle cable so that you can feel the butterfly cams move slightly at the same time for each cylinder whislt opening and closing throttle twistgrip about 10mm on the handlebar, this should enable throttle synch close enough to have the engine run much smoother. If in doubt take to a reliable mechanic. If the O2 sensors are faulty i have found that car ones may fit if the same thread, but you would need to cut the wires and change the electrical connectors over. Regards Steve

Quick check, lay down under the bike and locate the throttle body cams (wherethe cable fits in) turn the cam gently with your fingers and feel how tight it is (after taking into account the spring tension) compare to the other throttle body, the cam should turn easily with not much force, you can usually "feel" if the cam is stiff to turn, this indicates evaporated petrol in throttle body has left bio fuel debris behing causing the butterfly throttle flaps to stick. This is the main cause of rough running of these engines after using cheap petrol. If you clean the throttle bodies out, empty fuel tank if possible and use shell v power. Most expensive petrol is actually the cheapest, more power, more mpg, and clean fuel lines and clean throttle bodies.
 
Quick check, lay down under the bike and locate the throttle body cams (wherethe cable fits in) turn the cam gently with your fingers and feel how tight it is (after taking into account the spring tension) compare to the other throttle body, the cam should turn easily with not much force, you can usually "feel" if the cam is stiff to turn, this indicates evaporated petrol in throttle body has left bio fuel debris behing causing the butterfly throttle flaps to stick. This is the main cause of rough running of these engines after using cheap petrol. If you clean the throttle bodies out, empty fuel tank if possible and use shell v power. Most expensive petrol is actually the cheapest, more power, more mpg, and clean fuel lines and clean throttle bodies.

interesting, thanks. presumably you will feel that at throttle as well - stiffer to turn even if twist grip completely free with cable detached?
 
Go Back to Basics, valves checked and adjusted, exhaust clamps tight with no leaks / no blowing, check colour of plugs are any black indicating running rich which can be caused by sticking butterfly flaps in throttle bodies ? replace plugs if necessary, air filter changed / clean? start bike, squirt wd40 around rubber seals of throttle bodies, if engine idle changes you have an air leak, split hose or perished throttle body seal, if have access to a g911 diagnostic tool, reset adaptations, check throttle bodies cable free play (5mm or so), if have g911 tool synchronise throttle bodies using a "carbtune" vac gauge, if cannot synchronise throttle bodies and vac readings are way out, remove throttle bodies and clean out any debris / sludge with carb cleaner, supermarket fuel with ethanol in gums up the butterfly flaps in the throttle bodies, causing flaps to stick and make the engine run rough and also makes synchronising impossible. When that is completed use g911 and view real time data, especially look at each cylinder temperature (both should be within 3 or 5 deg c of each other, look at the lamda sensor (O2) readings, they should be similar. If no g911 available, suggest remove and clean throttle bodies, refit, check the throttle cable cams move easily, adjust each throttle cable so that you can feel the butterfly cams move slightly at the same time for each cylinder whislt opening and closing throttle twistgrip about 10mm on the handlebar, this should enable throttle synch close enough to have the engine run much smoother. If in doubt take to a reliable mechanic. If the O2 sensors are faulty i have found that car ones may fit if the same thread, but you would need to cut the wires and change the electrical connectors over. Regards Steve

Quick check, lay down under the bike and locate the throttle body cams (wherethe cable fits in) turn the cam gently with your fingers and feel how tight it is (after taking into account the spring tension) compare to the other throttle body, the cam should turn easily with not much force, you can usually "feel" if the cam is stiff to turn, this indicates evaporated petrol in throttle body has left bio fuel debris behing causing the butterfly throttle flaps to stick. This is the main cause of rough running of these engines after using cheap petrol. If you clean the throttle bodies out, empty fuel tank if possible and use shell v power. Most expensive petrol is actually the cheapest, more power, more mpg, and clean fuel lines and clean throttle bodies.

Went back to basics as advised and found the following when reading the temps on the down pipes from the cylinder heads, used a fluke infrared thermometer so should be quite accurate?

RHS Cylinder running at 200 degrees centigrade.
LHS Cylinder running at 373 degrees centigrade.

Quite a difference at idle so may be magnified when running at speed, anyone got any further ideas with this information?

many thanks internaught!!!!!
 
I bought an infrared temp gauge as I thought it would perhaps show difference in fuel mixture and hence header temps. No significant difference noted.
I did at one point have rough running at speed with what seemed like coil breakdown - it was in fact loose connection on the Lv feed to the coil on one side, push connector needed a small tie wrap to keep it secure, problem solved.
 
I bought an infrared temp gauge as I thought it would perhaps show difference in fuel mixture and hence header temps. No significant difference noted.
I did at one point have rough running at speed with what seemed like coil breakdown - it was in fact loose connection on the Lv feed to the coil on one side, push connector needed a small tie wrap to keep it secure, problem solved.

My last option was a break or loose connection in the wiring loom as I seem to have addressed all other issues with no fix, my issue sounds a little like you describe. I suppose I need to look at the RHS cylinder lv cables?
 


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