'17 GSA in for service so had a 1250 for the day

r1happy said:
The same improvements over standard fuelling that I have experienced on my four previous bikes that Geoff has worked on.
I’m one of those people the sceptics on here cannot understand. Not interested in figures, just a very satisfied returning customer!!!
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Simon Hargreaves was involved in a test of the 1250 and they took it the dyno at BSD. The dyno guy said the fuelling was nigh on perfect so how is Hilltop going to improve upon that.

I don't know about the 1200 so no comment from me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5WgugJQmRJA
 
So the 1250 fuels nicely, from the factory. The only people that would need a Hilltop on a 1250 are those that change to aftermarket headers then. It’s a shame BMW don’t offer a map, similar to Ducati when they fit a full system.
 
The Nutty GSer said:
So the 1250 fuels nicely, from the factory. The only people that would need a Hilltop on a 1250 are those that change to aftermarket headers then. It’s a shame BMW don’t offer a map, similar to Ducati when they fit a full system.
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There is no reason for BMW to offer an alternative map.

The ECU continuously monitor the combustion by means of feedback from the O2 sensors and adjusts the fueling to assure the engine gets the desired AFR. If you add/subtract factors that will require a leaner or richer fuel mixture, the ECU will readjust the adaptive map (also called long term trim in the none BMW world).

In the thread about HT posted for nearly a year ago, the HT guy finally entered and gave a brief explanation of what they do and don't do.
The HT procedure, as far as I understand it is a rewriting of the management part of the software, and not a remapping.

So, what does this management business mean? A bit of guess work on my part now, but generally when you build up a program that will do a job, you break down the different tasks in small sub-procedures. This could be a procedure for handling ignition timing, reading rpm, reading temperature etc. Then you build a management procedure that monitors the process by calling the sub procedures as needed. Most likely there is such a management procedure in the ECU already, and this procedure is fairly easy to find since it will be called in the startup process of the computer. If you want to do changes, you simply copy the management procedure, write in your changes, put it at a vacant spot in memory and simply change the management procedure address that is stored in the ECU to the address of the position of the rewritten management procedure. If you want a richer mixture you simply write in a change to the information received from the O2 sensors and voila, you get a richer mixture and keep all the benefits of ECU handling the timing, CAN-bus transmissions etc.
(I say "simply", but reverse engineering is always tedious and time consuming, and I do not in any way try to talk down what HT have done)

Even if the 1250 is reported to have a good fueling it must meet the emission requirements. This means probably an AFR around 14,7. I have yet to see an engine that will not benefit from a slightly richer mixture. So even if the 1250 is good, it is my humble prediction that slightly richer will improve even further. The catch is of course that if the engine already does a fairly decent job, the improvement will be difficult to notice and hardly anyone will se the point in paying for something that they will not notice.
This remains to be seen.
Yours truly will receive a 1250 in march, and my plans are to hook it up and see how it does and adapt my manipulator protype from my previous project (1200GSA) and check if a richening will be noticed. If I can not notice the difference by my ass-dyno I see no reason to mess about. Time will show..
 
I've not had my GS that long but have put up a reasonable amount of miles on it and honestly....what/where is this "flatspot" many on here talk about? Does it exist because someone has brought it to your attention or is it really that noticeable on your bikes? Maybe I'm lucky and mine is one that came from the factory with decent fuelling as standard but there's no discernible flat spot. I was invited to hoon about on track shortly after acquiring the bike and it pulled cleanly to its top speed which was close to 135mph....way faster than I'd consider on UK roads. No hesitation, no hiccups, no coughs...it just pulled. My only gripe is that I can hear it occasionally pinking under load, but that aside, fuelling seems fine. I won't be hurrying to have it re-mapped anytime soon and its refreshing now to have bought a bike which as standard seems better than many I've had "tuned" in the past. The standard exhaust even sounds good! I get the feeling that some people won't ever be satisfied with their lot. Once the "1300 quadcam" comes out, everyone will be dropping their pcp plans and 1250s for one of those....:rob
 
Morety said:
I've not had my GS that long but have put up a reasonable amount of miles on it and honestly....what/where is this "flatspot" many on here talk about? Does it exist because someone has brought it to your attention or is it really that noticeable on your bikes? Maybe I'm lucky and mine is one that came from the factory with decent fuelling as standard but there's no discernible flat spot. I was invited to hoon about on track shortly after acquiring the bike and it pulled cleanly to its top speed which was close to 135mph....way faster than I'd consider on UK roads. No hesitation, no hiccups, no coughs...it just pulled. My only gripe is that I can hear it occasionally pinking under load, but that aside, fuelling seems fine. I won't be hurrying to have it re-mapped anytime soon and its refreshing now to have bought a bike which as standard seems better than many I've had "tuned" in the past. The standard exhaust even sounds good! I get the feeling that some people won't ever be satisfied with their lot. Once the "1300 quadcam" comes out, everyone will be dropping their pcp plans and 1250s for one of those....:rob
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In general I agree and I’m genaerally happy with mine and certainly wouldn’t pay £300 for the hilltop flash without riding a modded bike and deffo feeling a change rather than based on a hilltop fantasy dyno run.

But having said that there is a flat spot on my 14 bike and on loaners that I’ve had from the dealer. How noticeable it is depends on how you roll on the throttle and what revs u use. I notice it most going for a quick overtake and going from a neutral throttle to wot. The initial surge is there but it plateaus in the midrange before picking up its skirt and going again. It’s not a gs only trait and many bikes have that trait to get through emissions tests which are usually tested about 5k rpm.
Some people mod for mods sake though and it makes me cringe when I see bikes with colour matched screens, bolts, levers etc. You want to take the m&p catalogue away from them before they put coloured tyres on it too.
 
I'll try doing the same spoonz and report back when I have. The only mods I have are to get the seat professionally re-padded and an inch removed from it, a vario screen and touratec reinforcing bars for the crashbars. Money's better spent on beer than buying buckets of pink engine case bolts!
 
I’m on my 4th GS. Current one is a 1250
All my 1200lc s has noticeable steps when accelerating through the Rev range. The 1250 is linear- which I assume is due to the more consistent A/F ratio
 
The Nutty GSer said:
So the 1250 fuels nicely, from the factory. The only people that would need a Hilltop on a 1250 are those that change to aftermarket headers then. It’s a shame BMW don’t offer a map, similar to Ducati when they fit a full system.
Click to expand...

You will not have time to worry, you will have sold it in 9 months...............:D
 
Dynos for the 1200LC all show a very clear, distinct flat spot around 5500, and which is evident to the ride. Also, it hunts at low revs in low gear. I have to say the 1250 is a big improvement in these respects, even though I'm not quite so sold on its as apparently some are, and I still think that it's vibey at high revs, off gas.
 
yofi said:
Dynos for the 1200LC all show a very clear, distinct flat spot around 5500, and which is evident to the ride. Also, it hunts at low revs in low gear. I have to say the 1250 is a big improvement in these respects, even though I'm not quite so sold on its as apparently some are, and I still think that it's vibey at high revs, off gas.
Click to expand...

I’m surprised we haven’t seen any dyno graphs or Hilltop figures here for this bike yet.
 
yofi said:
Dynos for the 1200LC all show a very clear, distinct flat spot around 5500, and which is evident to the ride. Also, it hunts at low revs in low gear. I have to say the 1250 is a big improvement in these respects, even though I'm not quite so sold on its as apparently some are, and I still think that it's vibey at high revs, off gas.
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I just don't get the vibes bit , mine is as smooth as silk , no vibes at all . Way smoother than the 16 TB in all respects.
 
Warlord said:
Under 100mph, and for 99% of the riding you do, there's nothing in it...

Buy whichever bike you can afford and enjoy it :D
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That is absolutely correct.
It's all about what you want, and nothing about what you need. Bringing common sense into the equation only contributes to confusion. :beerjug:
 
Wait for the camless engine :rolleyes:
If they have the tech to move that pin in zillions of times a minute, surely electromechanical valve actuation cannot be that far from a production reality.
VVT could be constantly adjusted.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/H2mTriy9oQM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
No... just wait for electric motors period.

Nice long term batteries and get rid of all that fosil fuel engine shite.... :D

One gear, tons of torque, long range batteries, lightweight, 2 wheel drive

It'll come.
 
patzx12 said:
Wait for the camless engine :rolleyes:
If they have the tech to move that pin in zillions of times a minute, surely electromechanical valve actuation cannot be that far from a production reality.
VVT could be constantly adjusted.
Click to expand...

The ShiftCam does not activate the cam position adjustment pins zillions of times per minute, in fact if you rode very gently it might go for hours without ever troubling the high lift cams, so no need to move the camshaft = no need to activate a shifting pin. Of course in reality it will activate a little more often depending on the variability of the power demanded by the rider.
 
Warlord said:
No... just wait for electric motors period.

Nice long term batteries and get rid of all that fosil fuel engine shite.... :D

One gear, tons of torque, long range batteries, lightweight, 2 wheel drive

It'll come.
Click to expand...

I've been discussing this with my son who is writing a paper on electric vehicles as part of his degree course. My view is that unless there is a massive breakthrough in the energy density capability of batteries, then long distance touring and many other forms of leisure riding and driving are going to be seriously constrained. You might only manage 100 miles at motorway speeds before having an extended stop for battery charging, assuming of course that you can find an unoccupied charger - going to take a long time to get to the South of France doing that! Depending on how enthusiastically you ride, you might get better miles per charge when out in the twisties and on slower rural roads, but then you would be struggling to find any chargers at all, especially in less populated areas.
 
fred_jb said:
I've been discussing this with my son who is writing a paper on electric vehicles as part of his degree course. My view is that unless there is a massive breakthrough in the energy density capability of batteries, then long distance touring and many other forms of leisure riding and driving are going to be seriously constrained. You might only manage 100 miles at motorway speeds before having an extended stop for battery charging, assuming of course that you can find an unoccupied charger - going to take a long time to get to the South of France doing that! Depending on how enthusiastically you ride, you might get better miles per charge when out in the twisties and on slower rural roads, but then you would be struggling to find any chargers at all, especially in less populated areas.
Click to expand...

No no no.... you've got it all wrong.

Batteries won't be the issue, unless you go off-road (and even then, technology will deal with that).

You'll have conductive charging built into the road infrastructure. It'll charge and power you as you ride/drive.

Under normal use, you won't ever have to charge a battery. It'll happen while you ride/drive :D

Sponsored by Scalextric (without the ruts) :D
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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