2014 Rear Brake bleed problems

ianm00

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My 2014 GS rear brake pedal goes nearly all the way down with very little brake.

I decided to try and bleed the brakes. I added a stahlbus bleed nipple to make it easier. This is a one way valve so I should be able to pump the fluid out and not air going back in.

However releasing the bleed nipple and pumping the brake pedal Im not getting any fluid coming through. The reservoir is full of fluid.

Has anyone experienced these issues and found a solution?

Thanks for any help

Ian
 
Airlock perhaps introduced when you fitted the bleed valve ? Try securing the lever in a depressed position for a bit, overnight if needed. That may allow fluid through the system to allow flow when you bleed. Im suspicious of the valve to be honest if the lever trick doesn't work. Ultimately the master cylinder might need new seals is its not moving fluid, unlikely though.
 
The breaks are linked on your bike. I’m not sure if there is something else you have to do besides just pumping the brake. If you try pumping the pedal till it gets a better feel then open the nipple while keeping pressure on the break pedal. When the pedal goes down all the way close the nipple and release the pedal slowly. And repeat till pedal goes hard. Obviously if there is a specific procedure because of the linked system disregard above. JJH
 
Airlock perhaps introduced when you fitted the bleed valve ? Try securing the lever in a depressed position for a bit, overnight if needed. That may allow fluid through the system to allow flow when you bleed. Im suspicious of the valve to be honest if the lever trick doesn't work. Ultimately the master cylinder might need new seals is its not moving fluid, unlikely though.

I dont think its the valve as I tried to initially bleed through the original valve but no fluid would come through when pumping the pedal. Also when I swapped the valve no fluid came out either.

Do I need to bleed the front brakes first due to the linked brakes?

Currently left bike with brake pedal fully depressed.

Thanks for any advice

Ian
 
The breaks are linked on your bike. I’m not sure if there is something else you have to do besides just pumping the brake. If you try pumping the pedal till it gets a better feel then open the nipple while keeping pressure on the break pedal. When the pedal goes down all the way close the nipple and release the pedal slowly. And repeat till pedal goes hard. Obviously if there is a specific procedure because of the linked system disregard above. JJH

I tried running the bike and holding front brake on whilst pumping the rear brake but there isn't hardly any pressure on the rear pedal and it almost goes down until it hits a stop.

Ian
 
I tried running the bike and holding front brake on whilst pumping the rear brake but there isn't hardly any pressure on the rear pedal and it almost goes down until it hits a stop.

Ian
That’s probably because there’s air in the line. Try doing it the way I’ve outlined. Pump slowly. JJH
 
That’s probably because there’s air in the line. Try doing it the way I’ve outlined. Pump slowly. JJH

Thanks for your help. I have tried pumping the brake pedal slowly but cannot seem to get any pressure. Would it be an idea to push the pads back and then try pumping to get pressure?
 
Thanks for your help. I have tried pumping the brake pedal slowly but cannot seem to get any pressure. Would it be an idea to push the pads back and then try pumping to get pressure?

What I would do is push the pads back the piston side only nescessary by putting your foot against the caliper pushing it over. If you could coroneradate to open the bleed valve while doing that you might manage to expel any air in the caliper. I’m surprised someone more expert than me hasn’t been along. JJH
 
You need to cycle the ABS pump.
GS911 needed or ride it around a car park activating the ABS.
 
This is a copy of my contribution to a discussion some time ago about bleeding brakes and being unable to gain any pressure.

Given that the hoses are not ruptured, in my experience lack of lever pressure tends to be a result of pushing against air which compresses and absorbs the pressure so that when you release the lever it expands and prevents new fluid entering the system;

pushing against something like a piston seal or dust seal which has stuck through damage or dirt and is not allowing the piston to slide forward fully against the brake pad - again on release of the lever the piston moves back by the torsion force of the seal rubber maintaining the feeling of sponginess in the system;

or, not pushing at all because the master cylinder seal is allowing fluid to leak around it because it it worn or ruptured.

Given that you say that you do eventually feel pressure, my money would not be on the master cylinder being at fault. The little squirt of fluid as the master cylinder piston passes the reservoir hole is normal - don’t squeeze too fast when the reservoir lid is off! It also indicates that the piston is pushing fluid as required.

In older systems it is fairly common for the shiny sliding surface of the calliper pistons to become corroded as they gradually creep out and are exposed as the pads wear. Along comes the mechanic who, charged with replacing the pads against a time schedule, pushes them back in, introducing the roughened/dirty/corroded piston sliding surfaces to the rubber dust and pressure seals. The result - jammed pistons.

Newer systems seem to have pistons made of synthetic material that doesn’t corrode, but the same problem can occur if not cleaned properly before pushing them back when replacing pads. Remember, where the pistons work is a hostile environment contaminated with brake dust, road grit, rain, salt etc.
I clean my calipers each time I replace my tyres, using brake cleaner and an old tooth brush and wiping the dust seals with red rubber grease on a q-tip. The result is pistons that can be pushed home easily with thumb pressure. Also, my understanding of the system is that the fluid in the hoses moves easily without obstruction back into the reservoir when the pistons are pressed home. This has to be the case to prevent hydraulic lock when the lever is released.

your situation sounds like either air in the system or the master cylinder seals having failed resulting in the piston not producing pressure.
There is no need to bleed the front brakes in order to bleed the rear brakes.
Alan R
 
You need to cycle the ABS pump.
GS911 needed or ride it around a car park activating the ABS.

Im not sure that this is needed at this stage. I have motoscan ap which can do the abs pump cycle.

There must be something wrong or an air lock somewhere stopping me building pressure at the brake pedal.

Thanks

Ian
 
This is a copy of my contribution to a discussion some time ago about bleeding brakes and being unable to gain any pressure.

Given that the hoses are not ruptured, in my experience lack of lever pressure tends to be a result of pushing against air which compresses and absorbs the pressure so that when you release the lever it expands and prevents new fluid entering the system;

pushing against something like a piston seal or dust seal which has stuck through damage or dirt and is not allowing the piston to slide forward fully against the brake pad - again on release of the lever the piston moves back by the torsion force of the seal rubber maintaining the feeling of sponginess in the system;

or, not pushing at all because the master cylinder seal is allowing fluid to leak around it because it it worn or ruptured.

Given that you say that you do eventually feel pressure, my money would not be on the master cylinder being at fault. The little squirt of fluid as the master cylinder piston passes the reservoir hole is normal - don’t squeeze too fast when the reservoir lid is off! It also indicates that the piston is pushing fluid as required.

In older systems it is fairly common for the shiny sliding surface of the calliper pistons to become corroded as they gradually creep out and are exposed as the pads wear. Along comes the mechanic who, charged with replacing the pads against a time schedule, pushes them back in, introducing the roughened/dirty/corroded piston sliding surfaces to the rubber dust and pressure seals. The result - jammed pistons.

Newer systems seem to have pistons made of synthetic material that doesn’t corrode, but the same problem can occur if not cleaned properly before pushing them back when replacing pads. Remember, where the pistons work is a hostile environment contaminated with brake dust, road grit, rain, salt etc.
I clean my calipers each time I replace my tyres, using brake cleaner and an old tooth brush and wiping the dust seals with red rubber grease on a q-tip. The result is pistons that can be pushed home easily with thumb pressure. Also, my understanding of the system is that the fluid in the hoses moves easily without obstruction back into the reservoir when the pistons are pressed home. This has to be the case to prevent hydraulic lock when the lever is released.

your situation sounds like either air in the system or the master cylinder seals having failed resulting in the piston not producing pressure.
There is no need to bleed the front brakes in order to bleed the rear brakes.
Alan R

I have confirmed that the caliper pistons are not seized and can be pushed back easily.

The rear brake pedal can be pushed down until it reaches the stop and very little pressure, I cannot understand why I cannot build any pressure on the pedal. If the master cylinder was faulty with leaking seals would I see brake fluid coming out of the master cylinder? The master cylinder appears dry without any external leaks.

Thanks

Ian
 
I have confirmed that the caliper pistons are not seized and can be pushed back easily.

The rear brake pedal can be pushed down until it reaches the stop and very little pressure, I cannot understand why I cannot build any pressure on the pedal. If the master cylinder was faulty with leaking seals would I see brake fluid coming out of the master cylinder? The master cylinder appears dry without any external leaks.

Thanks

Ian
No, you wouldn’t necessarily see external leaks if the piston seal is defective. As you push the piston along the bore of the cylinder, if the seal is shot, then instead of building pressure in front of the piston, the shot seal allows the fluid to flow past the moving piston and remain static in the bore. Effectively, the piston is having no effect on the fluid.
But, as a wise man once said.... if you hear hoof beats don’t immediately think of a rare Zebra (in this instance failed piston seal) think more of a common horse (air in the system).
Good luck, bleeding air from a brake system can be time consuming and frustrating. If you consider the brake line route from the master cylinder, up to the ABS unit then down to the calliper, it’s a tortuous route with high spots in which air can accumulate. If you have air in the ABS unit then either a BMW dealer or a GS-911wifi is needed to cycle the unit to completely flush it out.
Alan R
 
Its worth vacuum bleeding the brake, if you don't have access to a pump use a syringe with a pipe on the bleed nipple and suck the fluid through,
You could fill the syringe and back flush it, that can push the air through, making sure you dont have air in the pipe, either way better than pumping the pedal,
lifting the rear calliper can help, my rear lc brake improved with a vacuum bleed. the wheel circuits can be done without running the abs, ideally ignition off,
once you have brakes run the abs flush,
 
I used a syringe to suck fluid out through the bleed nipple which helped get some pressure back at the brake pedal. I then used the new one way valve bleed nipple pumping the brake pedal to complete the bleed process whilst topping up the reservoir. The brake pedal now has good pressure and is operating the brake correctly. The one way valve allows you to open it slightly and by pumping the brake pedal you can push fluid and air bubbles out the bleed nipple, the advantage being in the one way operation as when releasing the brake pedal no air gets sucked back in as the valve closes.

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.

Ian
 
you can do the same with the standard nipple and a bit of tube... just crack it enough to allow it to bleed, but its easier to take the fluid from the reservoir than draw it back from the tube... simples...
 
you can do the same with the standard nipple and a bit of tube... just crack it enough to allow it to bleed, but its easier to take the fluid from the reservoir than draw it back from the tube... simples...

Can you explain your method Im not sure exactly what you mean.

Thanks

Ian
 
Tube on the nipple to collect the fluid.. and just crack the nipple enough to allow some fluid past when you pump the brake... but not that much to draw the fluid back when you let go... it easier for the system to take the fluid from the container... pump it up and down.. and it will bleed...
 
My 2014 GS rear brake pedal goes nearly all the way down with very little brake.

I decided to try and bleed the brakes. I added a stahlbus bleed nipple to make it easier. This is a one way valve so I should be able to pump the fluid out and not air going back in.

However releasing the bleed nipple and pumping the brake pedal Im not getting any fluid coming through. The reservoir is full of fluid.

Has anyone experienced these issues and found a solution?

Thanks for any help

Ian

This is a known problem with the GS my 2015 GS had the problem and my new 2018 rallye TE does the same - BMW do not understand the issue but it’s real.
 


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