Breakdown: Won't Catch on Turnover, Power Socket Probs?

alecmuffett

Guest
HI All,

I just got ferried home by BMW recovery's agent in Warwick; long story short I was riding from Preston (Lancs) to Farnborough, making fuel and rest stops as I felt necessary.

I pulled into Sandbach, stopped, fitted-up for rain gear, had a bite to eat and pulled off bound for the motorway. I got about 200 meters down the M6 when I suddenly lost power, freewheeling somewhat. I pulled in the clutch and tried a rolling restart, but the bike wasn't having it, the rear briefly locked (so grab the clutch in and roll!) and thus I pulled to stop on the shoulder.

I tried rebooting the bike - I am careful to go through the full self test each time, I'm nerdy like that - but it wasn't restarting; I sighed, and wheeled it back upstream to the services with the slight help of a traffic patrol who pulled-over to ensure I didn't get flattened.

Sat in Sandbach wondering what to do - checked everything, fuel (half full splosh splosh) , oil (within bounds), diagnostic lights (normal), turned the alarm on/off twice, checked the kickstand is strongly sprung, etc), whipped the terminals off the battery for 2 minutes to reset the bike [see why, below].

Nothing helped.

Hmmm... The display seemed to be telling me that I had no petrol at all...

Finally I read the manual. "Step 1: Check kill switch." Whoops! It was set to "dead". Ha ha, I can't believe I did that, but I must have knocked it, what a muppet, etc etc... or so I thought.

Got rolling once again, M6, M42, M40, and got as far as Warwick services when the engine cut once more. Once again roll to the side of the road. Once again check everything, this time starting with the kill switch, which is set to "alive".

I spent the next hour on the side of the road waiting for the recovery truck; the bike turned-over most merrily on the starter, but apart from the occasional mild splutter would refuse to start. All the fairy lights look fine. Perhaps after a couple of attempts to turn over, the normal "brake fault" light starts flashing at double speed, but that may be spurious, or it may indicate something I don't understand.

I now reckon that on the first occasion on the M6, I must have hit the killswitch when trying to do a rolling restart - a lot more plausible - in which case the M40 incident is the second time it happened today.

I have no idea what's wrong; I was wondering about blocked fuel lines (but how come it cleared in Sandbach?), the chap in the recovery truck reckoned it might be the immobiliser going wrong, a dodgy key or weak battery in keyfob (but in that case why does the starter turn over, and how come the alarm on/off flashes twice/once properly?)

The one thing that I really *am* wondering about, on the other hand, is the software update to the bike which was performed a couple of weeks ago with all the other recalls.

I am a computer programmer and so am particularly sensitive to things like the staff at SPC telling me that the firmware upgrade takes 2+ hours, quote: "especially when it keeps crashing".

Me: "The update process? It crashes?"

SPC: "Oh yes."

I spend my days reflashing the firmware and settings on workstations and network switches - Sun, Cisco, and the like - and the process takes seconds, perhaps minutes, not hours. And it if crashes, we get very very loud and pointed indeed with the people who create the hardware.

So a crashing firmware updater does not give me confidence, but the same chap also told me that it is not possible to have a 24hr clock readout on my display, however, which I gather from other threads may not be so?

Anyway... Further evidence: Not being the sort to muck about with my bike's electronics (I am a "software engineer") I had SPC install a front power socket shortly after I got the bike; I use this with a proper BMW-type plug to power my Garmin 2610 GPS.

Ever since the software got "upgraded", the GPS (ie: the front power socket) has been switching itself off pseudorandomly; sometimes it works for a whole trip, whilst others - generally those where I have been turning the bike on/off without starting it properly, eg: to check mileage at a service station - it's dead more than it is alive.

That a loose wire is not the problem is evidenced by the fact that turning the bike off-and-on (such a Microsoft thing to do) often causes the GPS to spring into life, although it is not guaranteed to stay alive very long.

Also the red lamp embedded in the hazard warning button has started to behave erratically. There was a time when it was illuminated whenever the ignition was on, plus a certain grace period after switchoff. Now it is both off, or occasionally on, whilst the bike is running. The lamp no longer seems to have any bearing upon bike operation, other than being the button to turn the hazard lights on.

As a programmer I wonder if the ECU schedules events to turn-off power-socket-power, and in the update is not flushing the old events upon bike restart; this could lead to:

  • turn bike on
  • read mileage
  • turn bike off, switch-off-event scheduled
  • turn bike on, ride away
  • previously scheduled switch-off event executed
  • power to the aux power sockets gets switched off while the bike is moving
  • ECU gets confused
  • hilarity follows

...for instance.

In summary, atop all the other theories stated above, I also strongly suspect that I have a dodgy software update, or that the ECU is toast.

Does this sound like anybody else?

- alec
 
Bloody awful experience, I hope you get to the bottom of it.

I have two pals in UK, K12S and K12R, and both have left bikes in for service, and had to leave them longer than planned due software update issues.

Does not sound right to me, I am sure these things get tested. If it kept crashing, I would stop and think 'Why?", and leave it alone until I knew "Why".
 
Nice to see an intelligent post about a problem instead of the usual "bile emptying" contribution.
There has been some speculation that the socket will switch off (incorrectly) if it is not drawing a minimum current. The GPS currrent will be low. The bike cutting out may be the fuel pump problem that some unlucky owners have encountered. Hope you get things sorted quickly and I don't envy you your experience. :(
 
wilbjr21 said:
There has been some speculation that the socket will switch off (incorrectly) if it is not drawing a minimum current. The GPS currrent will be low. (

Mmmmm... that would have to be a new "feature", then, because I rode 6100 miles around Norway and Switzerland last year with the GPS, and it was just fine. I am considering wiring it directly to the battery if this problem keeps going.

Fuel pump? Hmmm... that's a possibility. They redid the fuelpump gasket as part of the recall, too...
 
Should have added that the speculation is that this is a "feature" of the software upgrade.
 
Your experience is (thankfully) worse than any I have (yet) encountered.

There is definitely an issue with the level of understanding within dealerships of the reliance of today's BMs on software. Talk to a range of different engineers within dealerships and you'll get a similar range of opinions regarding a particular problem. Or just a scratching of head and a "they all do that", "couldn't find that fault", or just a plain blanking of what you are trying to describe.

Most dealerships are staffed by well trained guys who are hardware specialists. Same as in the IT world where their counterparts install and fix servers, switches etc. They aren't software engineers, and however good they are at dealing with the mechanical, electrical and electronic problems, when it comes to software - outside the comfort zone and into the area of speculation and attempted 'mechanical' analysis of a software problem.

We are all BMW's beta testers. The 1200GS was the first bike with this level of sophistication and we are all learning (customers, servicing dealerships and BMW themselves......).

Problem revolves around BMW introducing a system that was only partially (insufficiently) sorted with an inadequate level of specialist support.
 
alecmuffett said:
Mmmmm... that would have to be a new "feature", then, because I rode 6100 miles around Norway and Switzerland last year with the GPS, and it was just fine. I am considering wiring it directly to the battery if this problem keeps going.
I'm convinced that a software update has caused the aux. socket to behave "differently" - on anther thread is was suggested that starting the engine with the GPS switched off and only switching it on when the battery charge light goes away helps. This worked the two times my GPS has played up. Another "symptom" of the software update seems to be that I'm only able to set the alarm within (10?) mins of switching off.
 
Sorry to hear about your problems. My bike failed to start 2 months ago, same symptoms, would turn over but not catch. Turned out to be the fuel pump, not the pump itself but the control module on top. This appears to be a known problem as the BMW service technician just happened to have one in his car. The replacement had different cooling fins, so it appears the design has been changed. At least it got fixed at my house on a Saturday afternoon, saving me a trip to the dealer.

Regarding the 24 hour clock conversion, I had it done to my bike during the last service.

Peter
 
Could it be a dodgy kill-switch connection?

I recall months back a couple of threads on 1200s with poor kill switch connections. Might be worth a check. If the thing has corroded, then your first accidental switch off could have knackered the connection.
 
You mentioned rain, I suspect Tobers has hit on the answer, try drowning the kill switch in WD40 to displace the moisture. Does it still have problems in the dry? If your warranty is still in place, why not demand a replacement kill switch to be fitted.

Regarding the power socket, mine does it as does most peoples 1200 following the battery drain software update. Whatever fixed the battery drain problem (which I never suffered from) has caused the power socket intermittent fault. Your explanation of how the software polls tasks and may cause faults through interruption is the best technical explanation I have heard yet, you should try working freelance for BMW :D
 
Tobers said:
Could it be a dodgy kill-switch connection?

I recall months back a couple of threads on 1200s with poor kill switch connections. Might be worth a check. If the thing has corroded, then your first accidental switch off could have knackered the connection.

I didn't consider that, but I think I can negate it; I noticed that the you can tell that the killswitch is "dead" because when so the LCD display shows "no petrol at all" - ie: the petrol gauge vanishes from the left side of the display.

Try it yourself with the key in the ignition:

kill-switch-run = petrol


kill-switch-dead = "no petrol".


On, off, on, off, it's quite amusing for about 10 seconds. :D

If the killswitch were mashed I would expect to see "no petrol" even with half a tank; but the bike sees my fuel, so ergo I believe the kill switch is pukka, though no doubt it could use a lube.

We could all use a lube. I need a beer. Anyway...

I with regard to the electrical socket problem think I can also discount any of the wild theories about "it measures your current draw", since I rode from home to Leeds without a problem, but once I'd been using the alarm overnight, and was stopping and starting over and over again the next morning (fill up, etc) - then it all started misbehaving, cutting the GPS in/out.

I'm with Clive - fellow software geek - on this one, I think the software's rubbish, but rather than just whine I'll try writing to BMW's ECU department, and see if I can get through to likeminded geeks.

With regard to why the bike won't start - well, it turns over just fine, although the battery now desparately needs 6hrs on an optimate. This is likewise evidence that the kill switch is fine.

Alas, the engine does not catch - no cough, no nothing - which makes me think "fuel pump" as mentioned by one correspondent above.
 
Pukmeister said:
Regarding the power socket, mine does it as does most peoples 1200 following the battery drain software update. Whatever fixed the battery drain problem (which I never suffered from) has caused the power socket intermittent fault. Your explanation of how the software polls tasks and may cause faults through interruption is the best technical explanation I have heard yet, you should try working freelance for BMW :D

How I wish I could get them to open-source the ECU. That'd be fun... :D
 
Sorry about your problems, but reading your story today may answer a new fault with my Autocom or do I mean my GS. Since my service and updates which crashed on my bike and I had to go back the next day my Autocom has been cutting in and out for no reason usually starting after a short break on a longer run. Last weekend I checked the wiring and found no fault, I cut the excess wire off and reconnected it. It did the same yesterday so I thought it must be the Autocom box which is 13 months old. This is very inconvienient as we are off to Austria shortly. After reading your post I might wire it directly to the battery instead of the acc socket and just pull the fuse out each night (as a short term cure).

Let us know if you get anywhere with this problem :nenau
 
Dave,

check the 'strange accessory socket problem' thread. What you describe is happening to lots of people.

Trip
 
Trip just been reading some more posts nothing totally conclusive :nenau

Spoke to Autocom this afternoon and they confirmed the software update is causing a problem :confused: They told me BMW has told them to wire the feed to the side light feed near the light :eek:

I said I was not keen to do this as it would mean cutting into another wire and corossian/waranty problems :eek: I may just wire it direct to the battery and keep the bike conected to my charger when not in use. Don't kow if this is a good idea or not but it might sort it for my holiday :thumb
 
Fixed And Sussed !

Peter Reilly said:
Sorry to hear about your problems. My bike failed to start 2 months ago, same symptoms, would turn over but not catch. Turned out to be the fuel pump, not the pump itself but the control module on top. This appears to be a known problem as the BMW service technician just happened to have one in his car. The replacement had different cooling fins, so it appears the design has been changed. At least it got fixed at my house on a Saturday afternoon, saving me a trip to the dealer.

Well I've just had a visit from a nice man from BMW, and I can now say "snap".

Exactly the same - same problem, same resolution on site, everything.

The controller was very corroded externally, and on the underside where the cables emerge from the rubbery potting compound there was a small crack - I shall post photos later - where perhaps water might have gotten into the unit irrespective of the new shiny blue seal. My bet is that it was dying anyway, but the mechanical interference from changing the gasket a few weeks ago pushed it over the edge.

When I mentioned "fuel problem" on the phone, he'd stopped by his depot and picked up the new controller on-spec, since one of his colleagues had mentioned seeing such occur. Given you're in Bracknell, it might have been you.

Now that he knows about the problem, he says he'll be carrying a spare just in case. :D

Reassuringly, he says that he doesn't get many of the new bikes needing service; from his perspective as a BMW emergency service agent they go wrong quite infrequently.

Apparently the biggest number of call-outs are flat batteries.
 
alecmuffett said:
The GPS aux-socket problem remains unresolved.
Just as an experiment - have you got anything you can plug into the rear socket while the GPS is in the front socket?
 
Clive said:
Just as an experiment - have you got anything you can plug into the rear socket while the GPS is in the front socket?

I have a handful of male plugs and can make something up.

What have you in mind?
 


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