Hola again... this is Ricardo from California

ricardo kuhn · Aug 3, 2006

Nin said:
>>>>sorting out the best bars I can afford just now, but if the tax-man allows I'll be after a set of yours sometime.<<<<

Nin

actually Nin (and everybody else) I give you a secret....

The GS bars Suck super duper bad, because they have an extreme bend on them, but the bend is not only backwards but upwards too...

I'm going to tell you a little story...

Ones I went on a long dirt trip with a bunch of guys on GS's and one of them was about to cry since he was suffering from some very serious "Arm Pump" and acute shoulder pain, anyway he was ready to turn around, in fact he was slowing the whole group down (getting dark and everything) so I start to think about what to do. First I offer him my bike, but he was unwilling to ride it , I guess too ugly for his own taste. More than anything he will not let anybody ride his (after seeing mine I can understand that).

So I came up with this concept right then and there... .FLip his Barbacks and make them into "Bar FOrwards" this way we can make the stock GS bars almost flat where the bend on them is the least pronounced...

I know it sound kind of strange and for sure looks ugly, but it works really well..

First Here for a bunch of fotos of another setup I did...

basically the clamps and bars will look like this...

the is how the Barback become ForwardBars or whatever you want to call it..

Notice how the bars are pretty much flat and also a lot less bent backwards. Hey it's not perfect but is the best you can do with the stock bars..

here are some pictures of the stock bars of the bike, so you can see how drastic they are in their bends..

Notice how much bend is on the bars from the point where they start to bend to the bar end,,and remenber this is when the bars are flat, when they are pointing upwards this effect is far far worse.

here is a view of the angle of attack of the forearm in respect to the grip, a little exagerated (taking picture with the other hand) but you get the idea...

this is the most problematic part on the stock bars, how they twist your wrist and form an abrupt angle from the palm of your hand to your forearm , locking the elbows and also the shoulders in place, bad bad news...

Here is a very basic comparation of the stock bars and the Ricky Bars on a R1150R, the bars on a GS are even more bent making it even more dramatic

Try the trick I show you on the top, I assure you a great improvement in comfort, at least for now until you get your pennies together to really experience the "magic".

ricardo kuhn · Aug 3, 2006

Nin said:
Yup, doing that, riding her like a KTM 450.
Response: Oh yeah just don't tell the Pig she is not a balerina

Haven't really done that properly yet - I'll get onto it

response: that is pretty much the most important part, become one withthe machine, Go at it..

Yup, done that, all of it.

Response:
Good for you, I learn so much that way it did hurt a little and sometimes not so little but I did learn a lot....

Couldn't agree more, except maybe a skinnier pipe to save a little weight and slim it down a bit.

Response:Yeap but don't spect a 20Hp gain because is just not going to happend, plus the only thing noise do is slow you down since the cops can Hear you coming from much faster..

You bet. Cheers Ricardo, I like your philosophy. Especially the "just ride it" bit. Thanks for taking the time to set it out. Come to England and have a beer sometime.

Response: someday i will go back there again..

MiGSel · Aug 3, 2006

ricardo kuhn said:
Basic like in Airhead....!?!?

Yup, as in R80GS Basic:

The stock bars on this vibrate so badly, that the car behind me is a blurr

Nin · Aug 3, 2006

Bar forwards

Neato!

I'm about 6'3" with long monkey arms.

I get wrist ache (I broke one a while ago) sitting down because of the crappy bend, and lower back ache standing up cos the bars are too low, so I put 2 1/2" risers on.

But now when I'm standing up I get the feeling of tipping forward (not just when I've had a few) cos the bars bend too far back - so the distance between my hands on the bars and my legs on the pegs is too small. So bar forwards might just solve both problems. I'll give it a go. As soon as the busted cylinder head is fixed...

I've been through a load of different bar set-ups on different bikes - I used a set of Renthal "Ricky" bend bars (named after some moto-Xer) on my DRZ400 with 2 1/2" risers, and they were OK - quite straight.

I tried Renthal's "dakar" bend on my old airhead and they were rubbish - worse than stock. The Magura bars on my 450EXC with risers were about spot on - they look quite similar to your Ricky bar set-up.

The legacy of all this is that I have about 6 sets of old Renthal bars in my workshop with various holes drilled, ends cut off , bits filed down, broken in half. Perhaps Vern could melt them down and make something useful out of them.

Nin

ricardo kuhn · Aug 3, 2006

MiGSel said:
Yup, as in R80GS Basic:

The stock bars on this vibrate so badly, that the car behind me is a blurr

well MiGSel lket do something about it....

I write you a PM soon and we figure something out...

OH she is so so pretty.....

ricardo kuhn · Aug 3, 2006

Nin said:
Neato!

I'm about 6'3" with long monkey arms.

I get wrist ache (I broke one a while ago) sitting down because of the crappy bend, and lower back ache standing up cos the bars are too low, so I put 2 1/2" risers on.

No Dude is the other way around...

your pain in the wrist have NOTHING to do with the spacial location of the bars,, well very little.. and all to do with the way they make your hand seat in reference to the grips...
actually if you shoulders were really narrow, about 10 Centimiters apart (yeah they are that bad) your hands, elbow and shoulders will be happy but since your shoulders are about 55 centimeters apart your wrist are all bend out of shape...

more to come soon about this topic...

in short take the rissers of the bike right now and try to make the bars as low and forward as possible to alibiate the pain you have

But now when I'm standing up I get the feeling of tipping forward (not just when I've had a few) cos the bars bend too far back - so the distance between my hands on the bars and my legs on the pegs is too small. So bar forwards might just solve both problems. I'll give it a go. As soon as the busted cylinder head is fixed...

I've been through a load of different bar set-ups on different bikes - I used a set of Renthal "Ricky" bend bars (named after some moto-Xer) on my DRZ400 with 2 1/2" risers, and they were OK - quite straight.

I tried Renthal's "dakar" bend on my old airhead and they were rubbish - worse than stock. The Magura bars on my 450EXC with risers were about spot on - they look quite similar to your Ricky bar set-up.

The legacy of all this is that I have about 6 sets of old Renthal bars in my workshop with various holes drilled, ends cut off , bits filed down, broken in half.
Nin

Nin some of your arguments are sound, but you also have a lot of misconceptions also...

just remenber Each bar changes in shape depending in the point of origen (were the bars clamp too) and also were the rest of the motorcycle is in reference,,(how high or low and how Forward and aft the seat , even the footpegs hell even the windscreen is interelated to the whole possition of you on the bike, what I'm trying to say is that you need to have a hollistic aproach and that maybe a bar that is wonderful on your KTM 450 is going to be a piece of Poppu on your GS...

Perhaps Vern could melt them down and make something useful out of them.

Did you guys see "The worlds faster indian" if not you need to see it is so freaking awesome..

do you remenber the first scene with the "TWo parts Ford, One part chevy" comment, sadlly fancy alloys are not a easy, but for sure Vern can do something fun with them....

keep me posted on the progress and I try to help as much as I can...

Nin · Aug 4, 2006

Ok.

I haven't been thinking about this in the right way have I?

Ricardo I'm going to have a think, and a play around with things for a while and try and find something or a set-up that fits me.

But actually this thread has also made me think about why I don't ride so much as I used to - I think a lot of it is about set-up and comfort, and the confidence you get from it feeling right.

Anyway it's late and I've had too much wife-beater (Stella) to ttype much sense ....

ricardo kuhn · Aug 4, 2006

Nin said:
Ok.

I haven't been thinking about this in the right way have I?

Ricardo I'm going to have a think, and a play around with things for a while and try and find something or a set-up that fits me.

Just remenber what a old teather used to tell me Comun sense is the least comun of the senses so think about your problem, but not in a way that just follow the steps of other since they can also be going in the wrong direction , analize what is happening to your body and then reach accordinglly...

Mister NIN if you want post some pictures of your self on the bike and we make you into a "Case study"....

But actually this thread has also made me think about why I don't ride so much as I used to - I think a lot of it is about set-up and comfort, and the confidence you get from it feeling right.

well Exactlly why I'm so focus on the Ergonomics of the bike , actually i'm focus on the Biomecanics of life and yes I'm kind of a Geek...

just Imagine the same work boots again...

what will happend if they are two sizes too small,, well you will NOT wear them, end of story or even worst two sizes too big and you keep ussing them even if they float in your feet and then you have blisters all over, who cares of they are Triple goretex, double menbrane, air-cushion whatever if they don't fit you they don't fit you...

in short..
those not make much diference in performance, in fact it does since you can not take advantage of the object, if you have the fastest pushbike but the toptube hits you in the balls, the warmest jacket but is to small for your wide shoulders, the fluffiest bed but is much to short for your long legs, whatever if they don't fit you right, you are much better of with a worn out piece of whatever that fits you like was painted on top of your skin...

Anyway it's late and I've had too much wife-beater (Stella) to ttype much sense ....

Tell me about it..

I'm on my way to a five day bicycle trip with my delightful girlfriend so i be away of the computer at least during the day for some time..

smilee mark · Aug 4, 2006

Quote
I'm on my way to a five day bicycle trip with my delightful girlfriend so i be away of the computer at least during the day for some time..
__________________

Hopefully for part of the night to.

Good thread to. thank you.

Nin · Aug 4, 2006

ricardo kuhn said:
I'm on my way to a five day bicycle trip with my delightful girlfriend so i be away of the computer at least during the day for some time..

Cheers Ricardo

have a great trip.

This is the only pic I have of me riding the bike, I'll get some better ones posted.

All the best

Nin

ricardo kuhn · Aug 5, 2006

Nin said:
Cheers Ricardo

have a great trip.

This is the only pic I have of me riding the bike, I'll get some better ones posted.

All the best

Nin

Come On NIN, we need something a little better than that don't you think...

A side view will be optimal, in act one standing and one sitting will be best..

ricardo kuhn · Aug 5, 2006

smilee mark said:
Quote
I'm on my way to a five day bicycle trip with my delightful girlfriend so i be away of the computer at least during the day for some time..
__________________

Hopefully for part of the night to.
Good thread to. thank you.

well i'm at the house in mammoth lakes now ready or the best bike ride...

I will be able to write every night

Nin · Aug 5, 2006

ricardo kuhn said:
Mister NIN if you want post some pictures of your self on the bike and we make you into a "Case study"....

It would be great to be a case study! Like you saw I only have one picture but I will try and get some side views sitting and standing onto this page in the next couple of days.

It's a bit tricky finding time just now. I'm juggling work, looking after a 3 year-old and fretting about my wife who's working in Beirut.

ricardo kuhn said:
well Exactlly why I'm so focus on the Ergonomics of the bike , actually i'm focus on the Biomecanics of life and yes I'm kind of a Geek...

Yeah but one person's geek is another's genius ... just look at Bill Gates!

All the best

Nin

Nin · Aug 7, 2006

Pictures

Here we go then. Bike is in standard configuration - no risers, normal pegs. Except the seat is approx 1 cm higher at the front.

Over to you Ricardo!

Fort the rest of you, yes there are some bits missing, no I'm not going to re-paint my garage door, sweep that drive or trim my neighbour's bush.

and

ricardo kuhn · Aug 7, 2006

Nin said:
Here we go then. Bike is in standard configuration - no risers, normal pegs. Except the seat is approx 1 cm higher at the front.

Over to you Ricardo!

Good thinking with the seat...
with the lengt of your legs you want to give them as much room as possible.

Fort the rest of you, yes there are some bits missing, no I'm not going to re-paint my garage door, sweep that drive or trim my neighbour's bush.

oh man NIN you need to see my house, at least you have a garage to fix

[/QUOTE]

exelent foto....
notice how your butt is located at the very back of the seat mostlly to accomodate for your long legs, if we figure out a way to move your whole body forward(finding room or your legs, liting the seat even more, dropping your feet) your arms will not have such a need or the extra reach (I want to see the "other Guy" coming to this conclusion) since you sound like a very agresive rider i will suggest to try to move your body as forward as possible to increase the masstrasfer to the front end making the bike a lot more agile and tractable, also you will have less wind noise since your helmet will be more forward and closer to the air stream...

yeah i know ...complicated, but don't worry I can fix it

first I will sugest you to get a pair of fastway footpegs to lower the location of your feet, this way you will gain about 5-6cms in overall leg extension and about 3cms in vertical drop, plus the platform is about 300% widder spreading the loads even better

so so confortable

Here are some of the basic measurements I made about 4 years ago when I developed them to be used on the GS's

going back to your last picture, we need to drop your feet so the point of reference when you are standing drops( the sole of your boot, when were you are sitting is oviuslly your Isquiatic bones,,,aka your butt), diminishing the need to lift the bars when you are seating since is pretty good

sorry If I'm a little more confuse than ussual, i'm just out of practice....

if you can post another picture of your shoulder (forward view) and even better one rom the top if you can (somebodys help from a second floor or something)

Nin · Aug 7, 2006

ricardo kuhn said:
if we figure out a way to move your whole body forward(finding room or your legs, liting the seat even more, dropping your feet) your arms will not have such a need or the extra reach (I want to see the "other Guy" coming to this conclusion)

That would be good. I always feel a bit disconnected from the front end of the bike - I guess having all my weight towards the back doesn't help either.

ricardo kuhn said:
since you sound like a very agresive rider i will suggest to try to move your body as forward as possible to increase the masstrasfer to the front end making the bike a lot more agile and tractable, also you will have less wind noise since your helmet will be more forward and closer to the air stream...

yeah i know ...complicated, but don't worry I can fix it

Excellent, I can live with that! Not as agressive as I used to be though.

ricardo kuhn said:
first I will sugest you to get a pair of fastway footpegs to lower the location of your feet, this way you will gain about 5-6cms in overall leg extension and about 3cms in vertical drop, plus the platform is about 300% widder spreading the loads even better

Just ordered them now ...

ricardo kuhn said:
sorry If I'm a little more confuse than ussual, i'm just out of practice....

Hey you're making perfect sense to me Ricardo. I'm extremely grateful that you're taking time to help me out ...

ricardo kuhn said:
if you can post another picture of your shoulder (forward view) and even better one rom the top if you can (somebodys help from a second floor or something)

Not sure if these are the right thing, but here's a load more pics. The neighbours are not quite sure what I'm up to ...

(RIP) willstatt · Aug 7, 2006

Hi Ricardo,

Only just noticed this thread and delighted to see you back with us. I've had my Ricky bars now for about 18months, and I absolutely love 'em. Beautiful piece of engineering and solved my shoulder problems from the standard bars. You're a bloody marvel and true biker comrade matey. You've got a lot of friends over here as you've probably realised.

I'm a Vern customer too, and am still convinced they're the best GS panniers every made. Am just fitting the matching (well almost matching) topbox that he found for me in the back of his shed. (I'm sending you some pics soon Vern mate)

Anyway, Stay well matey, and may large amounts of good luck come to you soon.

Will Statt

ricardo kuhn · Aug 7, 2006

Nin said:
That would be good. I always feel a bit disconnected from the front end of the bike - I guess having all my weight towards the back doesn't help either.

you know most people that ride this bikes, tend to aproach them as i they were CRuiser, you know harleys, they like to seat really far back and place a 100% of their body mass in the seat and then to make matters even worst get the grips (bars) as high and far back as the cables let them, will that mentality you get a bike that handles 'kind of Okay" and is confortable well as long as you have a really big cushy seat and you are not really using the handlebars that much....

but i you really like to RIDE IT, then is a lot of work to be done...

my aproach is far more "Holistic' and for sure far more focus on handleling and ultimate ergonomic performance, for that the Ricky's bars are only a piece of the puzzle, but basically the whole idea is to spread the body mass in a way that will improve the way the bike handle and also delegate some of the loads to the most apropiate menbers from your feet to hold the weight of the legs,(Big wide low pegs) hands, wrist, elbows, arms, shoulder and even your knee in a way they can be more eficient but also free to move so they don't get so tyred , actually the "Static body" just being there) becomes a leverage so less muscles are require to achieve any certain task

even the wind flow becomes a issue that can be at least adress i not improve

Excellent, I can live with that! Not as agressive as I used to be though.

actually is pretty easy to see you still "Have in you" and that is what really matter at the end

Just ordered them now ...

You are going to love them, and your legs even more

Hey you're making perfect sense to me Ricardo. I'm extremely grateful that you're taking time to help me out ...

well NIN a good sport, deserves the best

Not sure if these are the right thing, but here's a load more pics. The neighbours are not quite sure what I'm up to ...

They will do fine

see How your hand and wrist are on a disimalar angle than your fore arm...??? that most be killing your Neck right about now...

NIN your case is a little more extreme than ussual, the reason why is the distance in between your shoulders, i you were to have extreme narrow shoulders Like my ex Irina the GS bars will not be so bad...

actually Irina is kind of a extreme case the other way...5,9' with super long arms and a shoulder distance equivalent to a person that is 5,6" to the point the stock bars are somehow were they need to be. (proper bend for her size shoulders, and the grip located were they need to be in relatioship to the bike and her biometrics)

she is a exeption for the rest of Us humans,,,, well some need more help than others...

ricardo kuhn · Aug 7, 2006

willstatt said:
Hi Ricardo,

Only just noticed this thread and delighted to see you back with us. I've had my Ricky bars now for about 18months, and I absolutely love 'em. Beautiful piece of engineering and solved my shoulder problems from the standard bars. You're a bloody marvel and true biker comrade matey. You've got a lot of friends over here as you've probably realised.

I'm a Vern customer too, and am still convinced they're the best GS panniers every made. Am just fitting the matching (well almost matching) topbox that he found for me in the back of his shed. (I'm sending you some pics soon Vern mate)

Anyway, Stay well matey, and may large amounts of good luck come to you soon.

Will Statt

Oh Will is being that long....

feels like yesterday for you, maybe since you are so easy to deal...

I hope you have many years of happy adventures...

Nin · Aug 8, 2006

Hi ricardo.

Thanks for more great advice.

ricardo kuhn said:
the Ricky's bars are only a piece of the puzzle,

I'm going to try raising the seat a bit more too.

ricardo kuhn said:
...even your knee in a way they can be more eficient but also free to move so they don't get so tyred

An hour and a half in the saddle and my knees begin to lock up because I can't move them. So on a long ride I try to stand up every 20 minutes or so.

ricardo kuhn said:
see How your hand and wrist are on a disimalar angle than your fore arm...??? that most be killing your Neck right about now...

Er yeah - my neck was killing me, till I stopped riding a couple of weeks ago.

ricardo kuhn said:
NIN your case is a little more extreme than ussual, the reason why is the distance in between your shoulders, i you were to have extreme narrow shoulders Like my ex Irina the GS bars will not be so bad

The distance between my shoulder joints (where they rotate) is about 45-46 cm.

ricardo kuhn said:
actually Irina is kind of a extreme case the other way...5,9' with super long arms and a shoulder distance equivalent to a person that is 5,6" to the point the stock bars are somehow were they need to be. (proper bend for her size shoulders, and the grip located were they need to be in relatioship to the bike and her biometrics)

Nice arse too

Hola again... this is Ricardo from California

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