Yellow Peril
Registered user
I do like the red frame 
Twin Cam v LC
- Thread starter Sgt Bilco
- Start date
I test rode theLC and, if the deal didnt neet a deposit, id have bought it when I got back to the dealers. Decided to have a think about it. I rode my TC home and decided to back and buy..... a1200TC GSA Triple Black. For me , speed didnt matter and I felt that being a ham fisted klutz, the instant throttle may have caused me some issues. Each to their own, both bikes are great, I just like the presence of the adventure and its more planted feel.
Anyone got any panniers for sale?
Anyone got any panniers for sale?
Stunning bike Adventure Boy.
A definite keeper. Being a proud owner of a mint 2010 GS TC I can appreciate your need to go the long way to workv
Enjoy your new steed
Neil
A definite keeper. Being a proud owner of a mint 2010 GS TC I can appreciate your need to go the long way to workv
Enjoy your new steed
Neil
Just gone the TC route tempted in by a boatload of extras I freely admit.
I've been in here for quite a while and always been sceptical about Boxers having owned one or two and sampled others over the years but always a bit drawn to 'em at the same time
I couldn't get on with early oilheads. I could appreciate their virtues but felt they suffered from an overabundance of bland for such a 'premium' product.
I got older and the bikes got better (quality issues aside) so time to have a dip into the world of Oilpunk once again.
I've tended to keep a few bikes on the go, mostly older shitters to renovate or ride to go alongside the old Busa I bought new in Y2K.
Shitters came and went and did the donkey work plus the odd trip but the Busa still transported us back and forth across Europe at a reasonable lick despite the increasing 'odd' twinge for a decade or more.
I'll hold my hand up I've not tried the LC but I'm sure it's a great machine but holy fuck I've just had a 'Road to Damascus' moment with the TC ADV that I picked up this morning and did a couple of hundred miles on, had lunch, then plonked the doxy on the back and did a few miles more.
Properly frigged with my head in a good way hence my 'Oilpunk' metaphor. Not really fast (still) but fast at covering ground, an intriguing mix of stone age and modern technology that works somehow.
I'll never stop appreciating proper performance bikes but to coin a phrase 'By jove, I think she's got it'.
I've been in here for quite a while and always been sceptical about Boxers having owned one or two and sampled others over the years but always a bit drawn to 'em at the same time
I couldn't get on with early oilheads. I could appreciate their virtues but felt they suffered from an overabundance of bland for such a 'premium' product.
I got older and the bikes got better (quality issues aside) so time to have a dip into the world of Oilpunk once again.
I've tended to keep a few bikes on the go, mostly older shitters to renovate or ride to go alongside the old Busa I bought new in Y2K.
Shitters came and went and did the donkey work plus the odd trip but the Busa still transported us back and forth across Europe at a reasonable lick despite the increasing 'odd' twinge for a decade or more.
I'll hold my hand up I've not tried the LC but I'm sure it's a great machine but holy fuck I've just had a 'Road to Damascus' moment with the TC ADV that I picked up this morning and did a couple of hundred miles on, had lunch, then plonked the doxy on the back and did a few miles more.
Properly frigged with my head in a good way hence my 'Oilpunk' metaphor. Not really fast (still) but fast at covering ground, an intriguing mix of stone age and modern technology that works somehow.
I'll never stop appreciating proper performance bikes but to coin a phrase 'By jove, I think she's got it'.
Thanks Neil 
The Hilltop Frenzy is not about top end power either, it's about getting rid of the shite running in the mid-range due to crazy emissions laws.
What you think is smooth is nothing compared to what a well "carburetted" engine feels like.
Just had my S10 done, bog stock it was smoother than the TC with more low down power, I was blown away by how much better it pulls on part throttle at lower RPM's. how much smoother it feels, and how despite a load more drive at any rpm it also gets another 2-4mpg in all conditions.
I am sure from what people describe the GS benefits in a similar manner, if you love your TC, keep it and do the remap
Bendy toy
Registered user
Some people equate top end power with more top speed. But as the engine will be going at the same revs it cant go any faster. More power = can getting there a bit faster, but up at the top end its all about square law drag factors so 20% more power wont make a fat lot of difference.
HOWEVER 20% is a big deal when we talk about acceleration in-gear pick-up etc etc. Even if top end power was the same, the improved smoothness and usability make a decent remap well worth the cost.
HOWEVER 20% is a big deal when we talk about acceleration in-gear pick-up etc etc. Even if top end power was the same, the improved smoothness and usability make a decent remap well worth the cost.
Bendy toy
Registered user
The LC is great and cost BMW a fortune to develop, but it does feel like a lost opportunity. When can we have a bike with something like this under the hood? This is a parallel twin but it could be any cylinder format we like.
http://www.brp-powertrain.com/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-235/374_read-355/
Firing 2x as often without the usual 2 stroke losses = 2x the power. A modern 2 stroke 600 twin is equivalent to a 4 stroke 1200 twin. No wonder the Rotax 800 is so powerful.
BRP own Rotax and KTM who knows why they have not put this engine into a bike.
http://www.brp-powertrain.com/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-235/374_read-355/
Firing 2x as often without the usual 2 stroke losses = 2x the power. A modern 2 stroke 600 twin is equivalent to a 4 stroke 1200 twin. No wonder the Rotax 800 is so powerful.
BRP own Rotax and KTM who knows why they have not put this engine into a bike.
I've ridden 'well carbureted engined' vehicles. Maybe you need to work on your throttle control
I too went the TB GSA route with all the free kit having test ridden an LC. I had owned a TC GS before and the change that I valued was the the tank range, wind protection, road presence and more planted ride. I was struck by the zippy performance of the LC when i compared it with my memory of the GsTc but a test ride on the GSA was satisfying as well and there's always more to come with the long travel throttle if you can be bothered. Thats the thing really - whatever you drive or ride after a few miles under the belt you get used to the performance so going for the LC because it feels a bit faster would soon feel like a poor choice against the GSA's other benefits once you got used to the LC performance. In the end if you want a new GSA now then you've got no choice but to go for TC and a bloody great bike it is too....
I must admit as soon as the deal was done for the Rallye I was going to get it mapped by Hilltop as my TB was mapped and felt faster, after riding the new bike Im not
The Rallye seems a lot smoother especially when changing 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd the TB seemed to be unable to make the changes smoothly and seemed to buck quite badly with the Mrs on the back id get headbutted if she wasnt ready for it, 3rd to 4th and up was really smooth
The Rallye is as smooth changing all gears so Ill leave it alone the additional power I can live without for the compromise of having a magic carpet smooth ride
Loving the bike
The Rallye seems a lot smoother especially when changing 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd the TB seemed to be unable to make the changes smoothly and seemed to buck quite badly with the Mrs on the back id get headbutted if she wasnt ready for it, 3rd to 4th and up was really smooth
The Rallye is as smooth changing all gears so Ill leave it alone the additional power I can live without for the compromise of having a magic carpet smooth ride
Loving the bike
doctorsmudge
Registered user
LC con?
I've just got back from a trip to southern spain two up on a 2010 Adv. Prior to going the exhaust was changed to a Remus 2009 headers and 2010 Akro tail pipe. This made the bike run very lean with fueling all over the place so it needed remapping for the trip.
So Hilltop it was. All I can say is Geoff is a bloody genius. The remap does exactly what it says on the tin. Power up from 85 to 110 at the rear wheel. That puts it on par with the LC of 125 crank horse power. Apart from the extra torque, better MPG, smoother running it just makes the bike a lot better to ride. The remap is unlike others in that its a dynamic system. There is no set figures set into the ECU, its adaptive, throttle position, air temp, density etc etc are all taken into account and you're given what the bike needs, not what the input figures give you, regardless of conditions, altitude etc. Very clever indeed but Geoff explained to me the new system on the LC.
Its all fly by wire, so you dont particularly get what you ask for from the throttle. With the older models you twist the throttle 5% you get 5% movement on the throttle bodies, on the LC, you twist the throttle 5% the ECU gives the throttle bodies 15% movement, hence everyone gets on one and thinks WOW, I only just move d the throttle and its flying......... WOW, what an engine.
Does make you wonder?? This could all be rubbish but I'm just passing on what I was told by someone that knows far far better than most of us ever will. So LC owners, dont shoot the messanger!
I've just got back from a trip to southern spain two up on a 2010 Adv. Prior to going the exhaust was changed to a Remus 2009 headers and 2010 Akro tail pipe. This made the bike run very lean with fueling all over the place so it needed remapping for the trip.
So Hilltop it was. All I can say is Geoff is a bloody genius. The remap does exactly what it says on the tin. Power up from 85 to 110 at the rear wheel. That puts it on par with the LC of 125 crank horse power. Apart from the extra torque, better MPG, smoother running it just makes the bike a lot better to ride. The remap is unlike others in that its a dynamic system. There is no set figures set into the ECU, its adaptive, throttle position, air temp, density etc etc are all taken into account and you're given what the bike needs, not what the input figures give you, regardless of conditions, altitude etc. Very clever indeed but Geoff explained to me the new system on the LC.
Its all fly by wire, so you dont particularly get what you ask for from the throttle. With the older models you twist the throttle 5% you get 5% movement on the throttle bodies, on the LC, you twist the throttle 5% the ECU gives the throttle bodies 15% movement, hence everyone gets on one and thinks WOW, I only just move d the throttle and its flying......... WOW, what an engine.
Does make you wonder?? This could all be rubbish but I'm just passing on what I was told by someone that knows far far better than most of us ever will. So LC owners, dont shoot the messanger!
that is something i suggested might be happening some time ago. nice to hear it put forward by someone who knows what he's talking about
Guys Dont get me wrong this wasnt a knock at Hilltop ive heard the fella is mustard and knows exactly what he is doing, it may have been something that was done to or removed from the bike after the remap but the gear changes were as rough as a pile of bricks
the new bike (unmapped) is as smooth as peter stringfellow,s chat up lines
I wouldnt mind a go on another mapped bike to compair it with both mine mapped and unmapped
the new bike (unmapped) is as smooth as peter stringfellow,s chat up lines
I wouldnt mind a go on another mapped bike to compair it with both mine mapped and unmapped
I assume that it works the other way as well, in low gears when you wrench the throttle wide open instead of spitting you off the CPU regulates the engine in conjunction with the other clever electronics.
Deleted account 211025001
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Mmmmmm, an interesting thread I've only just caught up with.
Having had a second test ride on the KTM1190 this weekend it's now out of the equation as a replacement for my '05 1200 and I find myself thinking I'll stick with a GS
The Adv doesn't appeal so can't get a new TC; it's either a low mileage second hand TC vanilla GS or wait a year or so for the WC to be sorted.......................descisions, descisions.
Andres
Having had a second test ride on the KTM1190 this weekend it's now out of the equation as a replacement for my '05 1200 and I find myself thinking I'll stick with a GS
The Adv doesn't appeal so can't get a new TC; it's either a low mileage second hand TC vanilla GS or wait a year or so for the WC to be sorted.......................descisions, descisions.
Andres
Deleted account 211025001
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Anything that gives an inprovement of the super long travel/slow throttle response of the hexhead has to be good
Andres
doctorsmudge
Registered user
Guys Dont get me wrong this wasnt a knock at Hilltop ive heard the fella is mustard and knows exactly what he is doing, it may have been something that was done to or removed from the bike after the remap but the gear changes were as rough as a pile of bricks
the new bike (unmapped) is as smooth as peter stringfellow,s chat up lines
I wouldnt mind a go on another mapped bike to compair it with both mine mapped and unmapped
I could only suggest you give him a call, he will be only too happy to discuss the matter. He couldn't of been nicer, allowed me into the room while he dynoed it, explained everything in terms an idiot like me could understand. Fascinating guy, very approachable
I assume that it works the other way as well, in low gears when you wrench the throttle wide open instead of spitting you off the CPU regulates the engine in conjunction with the other clever electronics.
As for that, I am not bright enough to answer that one, but the new bike will give you whatever BMW deep fit!
Having had a second test ride on the KTM1190 this weekend it's now out of the equation as a replacement for my '05 1200 and I find myself thinking I'll stick with a GS
Andres
was the pillion verdict not good?
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