Brake Fluid Replacement

Its our choice to have the service done but the manufacturer will cover themselves.

A panic stop on brakes with water loaded brake fluid may well be OK. A long down hill in the Alps, with time to let the heat soak through, probably wont. Brakes with stuck pistons might not stop in time so heat soak wont be an issue.

Internally corroded brake calipers will clean up, but are always going to give trouble as the corrosion oxide expands and compresses the seals. Changing the fluid every 2 years reduces the chances of the calipers corroding so in the long run its cheaper than doing nothing.
 
Katnip said:
:beerjug: I don't know about the technical aspect, and to be honest I only got involved in brake fluid changes when I bought my first gs, a 2006 with servo.
However, I remember a couple of years ago when I and three mates were descending from Hitlers nest which is a fairly steep route to the bottom.
The guy in front had a Triumph Tiger and I thought he was taking some very serious chances half way down on the bends, and he appeared to be struggling.
Is was when we stopped at the bottom it became apparant that his brake fluid had boiled up and the brakes became next to useless.
He bought the bike second hand and had it for only 8 months and I know he is not the type to 'waste' money on servicing costs.
It sounds to me the Grey One is talking sense:thumb2
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't the above be poor use of the brakes or poor brake design?

I'm with Sleepy, it is a flippn sealed system so shouldn't need changing. And yes I do change the fluid when it gets dark cos I tinker about with the bike. I also make a point of pushing all the pistons home into the caliper when servicing the bike.
 
Dot 5.1 is NOT a silicone based fluid, it is glycol based.
I'd suggest not using dot 5 in a road bike (motorcycle not pedal cycle) as despite it not being hygroscopic, any water that does get into it has a tendency to sit at the lowest point which is the caliper, water in a caliper will boil and expand at the slightest provocation, causing loss of braking effect. It also causes corrosion inside the caliper.
I can't believe anyone who thinks they know enough about their bikes to do their own servicing would choose not to change their brake fluid regularly as part of that servicing. You're a danger to yourself and the rest of us. If I ever have the misfortune to be riding with you, I'd be sure to make sure you were in front of me, because I wouldn't want you behind me with your 'never serviced for 10 years' brakes.
 
For some compelling videos on why you should flush through brake lines even if you don't believe the water contamination issues look here
 
NZRalphy said:
Why wouldn't the above be poor use of the brakes or poor brake design?

I'm with Sleepy, it is a flippn sealed system so shouldn't need changing. And yes I do change the fluid when it gets dark cos I tinker about with the bike. I also make a point of pushing all the pistons home into the caliper when servicing the bike.
Click to expand...

So why do you change it then - do you not have the courage of your own convictions?
 
Why not join the flat earth society!

Why are people still posting that " water can't get in it's a sealed system" Not understanding how that could happen is one thing but not finding out quite another.

There are a lot of things in this world I don't understand but I don't go about saying something is impossible without trying to educate myself. Especially when there is overwhelming evidence that it happens.

It is a scientific and well proven fact that these fluids attract water. In the same way it has been proven that these fluids in vehicle braking systems "sealed" or not show an increase in moisture content over time.

The ways in which this occurs have also been investigated and reported on.

Look it up! If you still think it's a conspiracy, look up molecular transfer in scientific journals. Find out if systems really are "sealed" before you post about it.

There is nothing inherently wrong in not knowing something but it is a reason to discover things not to tell others that something can't happen because you don't understand it. So have a look, if you can find hard scientific evidence that the transfer of moisture is in fact impossible and that all the test carried out to test moisture content are also wrong please post it on here for us all to see.

John
 
I change mine every other year or every year if use has been extensive

Cheap to change
 
Nunkie said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ktxY_bgQY
Click to expand...

Nice film, even nicer music! Just a couple of points

Using a torque wrench to undo the caliper bolts is a bit OTT , I'd rather use a bar, bolts can seize and I want to keep the torque wrench in good condition for the tightening!

He appears to crack off the bleed screws after he has taken off the calipers, better I would have thought to try them first, if they are seized it will be easier to work on them if the caliper is firmly mounted. So try them first, crack them of and nip them back up again before unbolting the calipers

And I saw no signs of high melting point grease of any sort, a little on the sliding faces is good practice.

I did think that I could do with the skills of the person at the end when it came to refit the tank!

John
 
well , after following this thread before I started the rebuild of my beloved 06 1200gsa after I dumped her last my I wish I had paid more attention to changing fluids a bit more often . The front brake rebuild went well ( all calipers refurbished and resprayed brembo red - look great) new pads , new brake fluid (non abs so very straightforward ) an extra pair of hands is useful when bleeding the left side caliper !! . Rear brake started well till we started to bleed and nothing , rear master cylinder is corroded terribly , after managing to get the pin out there is no way it can be cleaned and I have had to order a new one so looks like it will be another weekend fettling before she rides again.

I know the position of the cylinder is not great for muck etc but this was definitely corrosion from inside . Brake fluid was last changed 10,000 mile ago which was just over 3 years ago at a main dealer before I got her.

She has been standing for the past 9 months following my accident and fluid levels were all ok when she was put away.

She is now a CAT D and I will be doing all the maintenance on her now and fluid changes will be part of a regular service plan.

Battery now on charge and hopefully she will start again
 
Bad luck with that master cylinder. Seals failing to that extent is a :barf

The fluid absorbs moisture so the area against the seals becomes dryer. Moisture migrates into the dry area so the process continues. With a well sealed brake piston the process is slow but it does happen so fluid has to be changed every 2 or 3 years. The seals will eventually get dirty and accelerate the process so a strip down as soon as the brakes feel even slightly stiff/sticking will save many tears. Once the thin anodised layer is damaged, the base aluminium will rot very quickly.

Do it early and the original seals can often be re-used - undamaged by crud. Ive just done my back brake with new seals becauae one piston was sticking enough to cause the brake to bind. the old seals looked fine under a Lupe but for £18 a set I used new seals anyway. The bike is 8 years old in August.

Today I notice the front wheel isnt quite as free as it should be so those brakes also look due for a strip down. This time I'll wait before ordering seals because front come with a set of pistons so cost is much more of an issue.
 
The Grey One said:
Nice film, even nicer music! Just a couple of points

Using a torque wrench to undo the caliper bolts is a bit OTT , I'd rather use a bar, bolts can seize and I want to keep the torque wrench in good condition for the tightening!

He appears to crack off the bleed screws after he has taken off the calipers, better I would have thought to try them first, if they are seized it will be easier to work on them if the caliper is firmly mounted. So try them first, crack them of and nip them back up again before unbolting the calipers

And I saw no signs of high melting point grease of any sort, a little on the sliding faces is good practice.

I did think that I could do with the skills of the person at the end when it came to refit the tank!

John
Click to expand...

Go to all that trouble then put the old pads back in!?



Sent using witchcraft
 
The Grey One said:
Most car makers have, over the years, deleted many things from the basic service schedule. Many stopped including a check on front brake wear years ago, relying instead on the wear warning lamps. When Citroen did this we as an independent specialist refused to carry out a service without checking the brakes. The driving force behind these changes was to reduce the perceived servicing costs at the point of sale. The fact is I doubt you will find a car or bike maker who does not say somewhere that brake fluid should be changed at regular intervals. Most vehicles carry a warning to this effect moulded into the brake fluid reservoir cap.

If you have paid for regular maintenance and the fluid has not been changed or at very least you were not asked to approve the change, then I would say the garages have failed in their duty of care.

It will have been there in the documentation, if you doubt that I would respectfully suggest that you write to the company concerned for clarification.

John
Click to expand...

+1. On a downhill run of an alpine pass a friends FJR ended up with no rear brake. Upon inspection nothing was wrong other than my glove melting on his disk brake. I change mine at every service. It's not difficult. 250 ml is all needed and costs peanuts for the peace of mind it gives.
 
That makes good sense and will find any corrosion around the bleed nipple thread before it becomes a problem.
I always use a little anti seize paste on the bleed nipple thread - carefully of course mineral grease is bad news if it gets into the brake calliper.

Yamaha FJR back brakes have no anodising and very prone to sticking seals due to aluminium oxide swelling up the seal groove. The front blue spots are excellent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have my 1200GS 2004 with ABS for more then 4 years and I just finish the 2nd flush of the breaks fluid (DOT4). I had the same second thoughts about the usefulness of this time consuming service and was hoping that might be 3years is also acceptable. So after an discussion with a "expert" technician I bought a second hand "Pro" device to measure the boiling point of the fluid after each step of the service.

DSC07897.JPG


Link to a LOT of Pictures -> here and from 2years ago here
Those are the results:
boiling%20point%20EN.jpg


The conclusion is that 2years is the RIGHT interval for the breaks fluid change (DOT 4) everything else is a gamble. Bleeding from ABS modulator pipes 2&4 and 3&5 is almost waste of material but anyway better do it all.


BTW I have also GS911 and don't see much use in the break fluid change - it is just for a testing and verification ->
attachment.php



Cheers.
 
Thanks for this - very interesting and confirms the necessity of replacing fluid - I have really learned a lot from this thread. :thumb2
 
Schtum said:
Yes and it's good to see manufacturers doing what they can to preserve the quality of something as important as brake fluid but I bet that Kawasaki still specify a brake fluid change at regular intervals (probably every two years). The best illustration I ever had was clutch related rather than brakes but I remember the clutch on my old '98 VFR800 being spongy, heavy and the clutch dragging when the fluid which had become pretty manky was due a change. A quick bleed through and all was well again.

It's false economy and potentially dangerous to neglect something so relatively simple.
Click to expand...

Odd.My 98 VFR had a cable.Agree with Grey One.Apart from being hygroscopic,brake fluid acts as a lubricant for the seals in the master cylinder and calipers.Worth changing it to protect these,just like changing engine oil.Cant believe anyone wouldn't do it.You'd have to be skint,really tight or insane not to do it every two years.And a very unperceptive rider not to notice the difference when it was done.
 
Interesting thread, I don't recall seeing anything in the service schedule about replacing tyres either, but people are constantly changing these item, is this due to the "nice little earner" that the tyre companies make?

Personally, I never change my tyres, brake pads, fluid, engine oil or anything, I just ride my bikes and drive my cars until they seize up or I crash into something/someone, then I buy a new one with the insurance money, can't see the point in all this "maintenance" malarkey, it's not like these bikes/cars cost a lot to buy anyway!!

Anyhoo, this is my first post on this forum, and you may notice I can be a sarcastic bugger at times ;-)

Evening all.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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