Brake pulsing / judder

Monty · Apr 29, 2010

Hi folks,

I have an 09 GS and over the past few thousand miles there is an increasing pulsing when braking gently at low speeds. I have taken it to my local dealer twice, and both times they have test ridden it and said there is no problem and the discs are in spec. I have read the threads on here but I am now stuck really.

I feel like I am going mad. The pulsing is definitely there, to the point where it is actually uncomfortable braking at low speed (especially with a passenger). When I got home from the latest trip to the dealer I touched both discs. The right one was warm and the left a lot cooler. Is this likely to be connected with the problem, or nothing to worry about? Also, with the front wheel clear of the ground I can spin the wheel and hear that one of the discs is not right as the usual sound of the pads on disc changes once per revolution.

My next step is to take it to another dealer, but I am worried that I will get the same response. Is there any advice that you guys have or your own experiences of getting this problem sorted under warranty?

Much obliged,

Matt

DrPete · Apr 29, 2010

Does it do it when you brake hard? The symptom sounds to me like a warped disc - when the dealer said the discs were "in spec" did the mechanics actually put a gauge on them?

My old ZX6 used to warp discs fairly regularly (thankfully my GS hasn't yet) and a telltale sign was pulsing under braking.

BBB61 · Apr 29, 2010

Which dealer has told you they are in spec?

Monty · Apr 29, 2010

Bob Southgate said:
Which dealer has told you they are in spec?

Cannon's at Braintree. The technician told me I need to brake harder as gentle braking makes it worse and it is due to the linked brakes. :confused:

The sensation is mainly at "town speeds" and the slower I am and the more gently I brake the more I feel it.

I am intrigued at the different temperatures of the discs and I am interested if other people have found this or if it is a red herring.

:comfort

Deleted account 211025001 · Apr 29, 2010

It's not uncommon.

Over the years WBM have addressed the issue with different bolt/washer/disc combinations but it's never gone completley away.

The weird thing is there is never an obvious reason and it affects all model years.

Mine's an 'o5 and I've got through several sets of discs. 6,000 miles ago I had some '09 discs and bolts fitted which 'float' a lot more than previous types and, so far, no probs - time will tell.

On previous occasions my dealer said the run-out was in spec but still changed them under warranty. When changed the pulsing went away (for a while!).

It's a well documented problem so I thnik you dealer is being somewhat less than helpful - 'brake harder', what a feckwit thing to tell you

Oh, my pulsing also happened at low speed (not so much if at all at high speed) which is strange. On other bikes I've owned that have warped discs it was always the other way around :confused:

Andres

Monty · Apr 29, 2010

Thanks for the info.

If there is anyone here from a dealer within 100 miles of Essex who will get the discs done under warranty for me, please send me a pm. I do not mind a ride, I just get pissed off when I know there is a problem and the technician is not having any of it. :rob

BBB61 · Apr 29, 2010

Monty said:
Cannon's at Braintree. The technician told me I need to brake harder as gentle braking makes it worse and it is due to the linked brakes.

Your brakes should not pulse just because you are braking gently. I would suggest you seek a second opinion. You could try SBW Motorrad in Hertford as I suspect they would be the next closest dealer to you.

original_concept · Apr 29, 2010

This might not make any sense, but here you go.

I had too have had the same problem as you and received the same wisdom. I solved the juddering by replacing the front brake pads with a set from Steptoe.

Don't ask me why, all I know is that I've not felt the judder since.

Slowdown · Apr 29, 2010

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Are you sure you don't have a stuck brake piston(s)? Have you tried cleaning the calipers and piston, with the pads out and the pistons pumped out(not all the way, just a bit more than normal)

It did, and continues to do, wonders on my bike. You might try a bit of emery paper to take the sheen off the pad faces too...

I'm in all weekend, and am within 100 miles of Essex. So if you fancy mowing my front lawn, I'll clean your brakes

Monty · Apr 29, 2010

Slowdown said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Are you sure you don't have a stuck brake piston(s)? Have you tried cleaning the calipers and piston, with the pads out and the pistons pumped out(not all the way, just a bit more than normal)

It did, and continues to do, wonders on my bike. You might try a bit of emery paper to take the sheen off the pad faces too...

I'm in all weekend, and am within 100 miles of Essex. So if you fancy mowing my front lawn, I'll clean your brakes

I will have a look at the brakes over the weekend. I guess I take the pads out then attack the pistons with some brake cleaner stuff? I am not a whizz when it comes to these things, if you could not tell.

I may also try a different set of pads too.

Matt

Monty · Apr 29, 2010

Bob Southgate said:
Your brakes should not pulse just because you are braking gently. I would suggest you seek a second opinion. You could try SBW Motorrad in Hertford as I suspect they would be the next closest dealer to you.

I called them a short while ago and Steve was very helpful. As soon as their brake testing machine thingy comes back from being repaired they are happy to have a look. If the DIY approach does not work, I will trundle over there.

Much obliged.

Matt

Slowdown · Apr 29, 2010

Just get a can or brake cleaner and give each caliper a third of the can, once it's removed and the pads are out.

Here's a 'HOWTO' - http://www.r1200gs.info/howto/brakepads.html

The bolts are 30nm when you put them back... If the pins are corroded then get new ones from the dealer - I think all 3 cost me a tenner. Make sure the rear caliper sliding part is clean too - and grease it! And don't forget a splodge of coppa grease on the back of the pads!

Rollin Bone · Apr 29, 2010

Mine to

Mine are doing the exact same, low speed snatch, dealer can feel it but as discs are in spec, wont change, 08 plate with 12000 mile they did change my discs at 6000 but only cured problem for 3000 miles.

Regards RB

HTB · Apr 29, 2010

yup, my '56 GSA with 8k on it does exactly the same. Glad I came across this thread as I'd been mulling over new discs even though I can't detect a run out. Time for some cleaning and some changed pads I think. But which pads...?!

Roadsweeper · Apr 29, 2010

2008 1200gs with 10k miles week before warranty expires popped it in to the dealers . mechanic did a two minute road tast came back and said new discs under warranty.

Tha main symptom was a pulse when braking at slow speeds. the pulse was felt through the bars. Nothing heavy did not move the bars just a gentle resonance.

if braking heavy from speed not as aware of it. felt it most just as you slowed to walking pace and started to ease off on the braking as you came to a halt.

RickG · Apr 30, 2010

As has been said, this was very much a hot topic in the forum two or three years ago with many threads, ideas and attempts to explain what was going on and how to fix it. For whatever reason, the number of reports of the problem have seemingly become much lower.

What is clear is that many disks were changed under warrenty around that time and that the issue is well known to the dealers so a refusal to properly address your problem is simply ignorant.

Monty · Apr 30, 2010

This is really useful stuff. If the DIY approach does not work I am hopeful that a trip to SBW will sort it.

Regards,

Matt

Kremmen · May 2, 2010

MY 09 GS does exactly the same..... just had the 1st service done at Cannon's .... on a side note did yo know that Matthew's gone???
Got them to investigate & told it's a "characteristic" ......not impressed or convinced.
I'm soon to book it into another dealer for them to have the third look at the fuel gauge ....I'll ask them to take another look at the brakes.

mr badger · May 2, 2010

Hi Matt

Same symptoms I had as my front discs started to warp. Cleaning is a good place to start but may not be enough if the discs are stating to warp.

My right disc was just about in tolerance the first time I went to Lind but after a day's hard braking on a course they were properly buggered and then changed under warranty.

Cannons nonsense about brake harder is apalling. The judder will be less under hard braking (until the warping gets bigger) but that's like trying to cure toothache with whisky; the pain goes away for a bit but you still have a bad tooth.

Funnily enough, I had a slight pulse yesterday. Will give them a clean and then do some emergency stop practice to find out what the story is, especially as the warranty on my brakes ends in October.

Monty · May 2, 2010

Kremmen said:
MY 09 GS does exactly the same..... just had the 1st service done at Cannon's .... on a side note did yo know that Matthew's gone???
Got them to investigate & told it's a "characteristic" ......not impressed or convinced.
I'm soon to book it into another dealer for them to have the third look at the fuel gauge ....I'll ask them to take another look at the brakes.

It is a shame about Matthew as he was making a real difference. If I had known he had gone I would not have gone back there.

Telling people it is a "characteristic" is just utter bollocks, and I am pleased it is not just me they are treating like a fuckwit. Telling me I brake too gently and that I need to brake harder left me amazed.

I will update this thread with how I get along at SBW when I go there, just so other folks know if there is a different attitude from another dealer.

In the meantime, if you want to go for a ride so we can bitch and moan about our brakes and Cannon's let me know. :rob

Cheers,

Matt

Brake pulsing / judder

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