1200GS engine failure

[littleredkelpie]

My 1200GS dropped an exhaust valve in the RHS cylinder and BMW handed me a repair quote for 2,500GBP. (New head, cylinder, piston, conrod, blah blah blah).

I know this is not the first time this has happened, RHS cylinder valve failure has appeared on this, and other sites, before. The purpose of my post is simply to keep people informed.

I have an '05 1200GS purchased new, only travelled 12,000 miles and 5 months out of warranty, BMW only service, a very easy life - never commuted and only short distance unladen touring. I was in 3rd gear doing about 5,000rpm at the time.

After 2 months of backwards and forwards 'discussions' with BMW Customer Service they finally agreed to cover some of the cost. some, but certainly not all.

The thing that is most upsetting is that you don't have to look far to find a growing history of RHS cylinder valve failure and yet BMW refuse to comment on the cause. Initially they tried to blame aftermarket exhaust systems. Rediculous. Mine has an aftermarket muffler but orginal headers and cat converter. When I pushed them for a reason and mentioned evidence of other similar incidents including apparently, police bike fleet failures, all I got was a smirk and silence.

I also thought it strange that at no time were BMW even the slightest bit interested in the circumstances of the failure - as you would be if you were interested in discovering why such a catostrophic failure might have occured at only 12,000 miles. I can only assume they already know why and the less discussion the better - for them.

In hindsight, mine gave me maybe 10-20kms warning (spread over 2 days).
If you have a 1200 BMW (the model is I suspect irrelevent) and you are out of warranty you might want to take any change in exhaust note very seriously. Under acceleration, mine started to sound a bit 'rough'. Not much, just a bit - literally like it had a sore throat. In fact, it actually sounded pretty cool. Performance seemed unaffected - maybe even a bit improved. Personally, if I ever hear it again, I will park the bike immediately, call BMW Assist and tell them it is about to drop an valve and destroy the RH side of the engine.

For what it's worth,

littleredkelpie

 

[red1]

That's really bad news littleredkelpie.

IMHO BMW are in a position where they have improved the performance of an engine beyond it's engineering capabilities to match competitor machines. This is probably why they are now introducing the 800 twins, which I firmly believe will quite quickly replace the boxer engine in BMW's line-up in various sizes upto 1000cc.
The reliabilty of the GS range has had many detractors, which is something of a shame as the concept is really good, just BMW's adoption of the 3 Monkeys (hear no problems, see no problems, accept no problems) Policy has stopped the refinement of the model. ie EWS and petrol pump issues for 4 years is a disgrace.
Unfortunately a great number of people associate price with quality and in the case of BMW the price is what the market will pay for the badge and not the quality of the product.

 

[GS TRV]

sell it and buy Jap crap

 

[RickG]

IMHO BMW are in a position where they have improved the performance of an engine beyond it's engineering capabilities to match competitor machines..

Can't agree with that statement. The GS engine is a donkey compared to most other twins and is well understressed as blow-ups are very rare and high milages common. It's bhp/litre is only marginally better than was my 1969Triumph Bonneville! The competition, if we are talking about modern twins, blow it into the weeds, but that's not the point of the GS

 

[wilbjr21]

Seems to be a very rare problem.

 

[pbboxer]

Last night at about 80mph in 4th on my r1200s, the engine let go that badly that ive now a 6 inch hole in teh TOP of the engine. Oil all over the wheels and me and basically the whole bike.
9100 miles, 5 month warranty left, absolutely no warning at all and had covered approx 80 miles last night. FSH, oil bought and topped up from BMW dealers etc... really pissed off

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Last night at about 80mph in 4th on my r1200s, the engine let go that badly that ive now a 6 inch hole in teh TOP of the engine. Oil all over the wheels and me and basically the whole bike.
9100 miles, 5 month warranty left, absolutely no warning at all and had covered approx 80 miles last night. FSH, oil bought and topped up from BMW dealers etc... really pissed off

Bad luck but it could happen to any engine at anytime if you are unlucky. You have warranty so shouldn`t have any issues in repair.

If anyone thinks it`s only BuMW have a problem, have a browse at the Yamaha/Suzuki/Aprilia etc forums and you`ll see they are all the same.

IMHO, I don`t think the Boxer engine is any less problematic than anything else and given it`s the best selling bike in Europe, there are more out there to have potential issues!!

 

[Tractorpilot]

Not the only one

Me too

Actually - it has happened twice to me and the link on the other thread shows similar pictures from Johannesburg

 

[Flashman2001]

My 1200GS dropped an exhaust valve in the RHS cylinder and BMW handed me a repair quote for 2,500GBP. (New head, cylinder, piston, conrod, blah blah blah).

I know this is not the first time this has happened, RHS cylinder valve failure has appeared on this, and other sites, before. The purpose of my post is simply to keep people informed.

I have an '05 1200GS purchased new, only travelled 12,000 miles and 5 months out of warranty, BMW only service, a very easy life - never commuted and only short distance unladen touring. I was in 3rd gear doing about 5,000rpm at the time.

After 2 months of backwards and forwards 'discussions' with BMW Customer Service they finally agreed to cover some of the cost. some, but certainly not all.

The thing that is most upsetting is that you don't have to look far to find a growing history of RHS cylinder valve failure and yet BMW refuse to comment on the cause. Initially they tried to blame aftermarket exhaust systems. Rediculous. Mine has an aftermarket muffler but orginal headers and cat converter. When I pushed them for a reason and mentioned evidence of other similar incidents including apparently, police bike fleet failures, all I got was a smirk and silence.

I also thought it strange that at no time were BMW even the slightest bit interested in the circumstances of the failure - as you would be if you were interested in discovering why such a catostrophic failure might have occured at only 12,000 miles. I can only assume they already know why and the less discussion the better - for them.

In hindsight, mine gave me maybe 10-20kms warning (spread over 2 days).
If you have a 1200 BMW (the model is I suspect irrelevent) and you are out of warranty you might want to take any change in exhaust note very seriously. Under acceleration, mine started to sound a bit 'rough'. Not much, just a bit - literally like it had a sore throat. In fact, it actually sounded pretty cool. Performance seemed unaffected - maybe even a bit improved. Personally, if I ever hear it again, I will park the bike immediately, call BMW Assist and tell them it is about to drop an valve and destroy the RH side of the engine.

For what it's worth,

littleredkelpie

Really sorry to hear your story littleredkelpie

 

[davedyer]

What a bummer suffering such a catastrophic failure on a low mileage bike. Weren't the 05 bikes prone to this? I've read here that BMW will supply replacemnt parts but owners have to pay for labour - I guess its nothing for BMW to dip into the parts bin and you keep the dealer sweet paying for their time.

...and mentioned evidence of other similar incidents including apparently, police bike fleet failures...

I wouldn't read too much into the failures the police have had. For a start their bikes are ridden hard and well into the red. They also spend a lot of their time at crash scenes with their engines ticking over with the bikes left on their side stands. This leaves the RH cylinder above the horizontal and suffering low oil pressure. For this reason I always start mine on its centre stand and never leave it idling on the side stand.

 

[cusi]

You have warranty so shouldn`t have any issues in repair.

Until the next thing goes wrong.

I cannot believe you are so blaise about boxer engine failures. Prior to the 1200 series BMv built their reputation on engine longevity. There is clearly a problem with the engine management system as the mechanics are primarily the same design. If the computer doesn't get the fuel mix right then you are asking for problems, compounded by the fact that some of these engines consume oil like 2 stroke.

Just my 2p

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Cusi

I`m not blase about it but I`ve done around 80,000 miles with boxers and never had an engine problem. I`ve done 34,000 trouble free on my 1200ADV in 20 months.

It`s true that BuMW are screwing a lot of power out of the ditch pump engine but an engine failure is not a common problem on a 1200 or any boxer come to that. Remember the GS is the best selling bike in Europe and most do biggish mileage so any issues will be highlighted. Electrical gremlins are a different issue but then all modern vehicle have to have complex electronics to get he emmissions and I`m yet to hear of one manufacturer who doesn`t suffer.

I do expect 100% reliability but I understand that it`s lots of parts bolted together which can go wrong occasionally. I`m very happy with the product and don`t think that there is another bike which would stand the hammering I give.

I feel desperately sorry for people who have major problems but I really believe that the 1200 is as good as, if not better than, anything else out there!

 

[Marty Hill]

I'm with Bilco on this one. I have 86k miles on 3 12 GS's and 230k on 1150 and 1200 boxers with zero problems. A few are less pleased.

 

[BillWright]

The failure on the new police r1200's is down to being on the side stand. I just don't leave mine ticking over for any length of time and mainly use the centre stand

 

[philwood90]

Sorry to here your bike went as well, your right this is a comon problem. My 06 GSA went after 6000 miles

 

[wilbjr21]

Sorry to here your bike went as well, your right this is a comon problem. My 06 GSA went after 6000 miles

Two of you doesn't make this common - neither does ten.

 

[littleredrooster]

The failure on the new police r1200's is down to being on the side stand. I just don't leave mine ticking over for any length of time and mainly use the centre stand

How and why, please? My car engine has pistons which are miles above the sump, but it hasn't worn out yet?

 

[littleredkelpie]

Two of you doesn't make this common - neither does ten.

For the record, my point is not that dropped valves in the RHS cylinder is 'common' but that there appears to be growing evidence of a consistent pattern of failure developing. If such a pattern is genuine then any talk about being 'unlucky' is little more than head in the sand rubbish and the sort of excuse BMW appear keen to promulgate.

If the pattern of failure is genuine, then it is no different to the consistent pattern of failure that developed with the Vario Top Case. I can speak from experience there as well, having had 3 Top Cases fail in the space of the original 2 years warranty period. (The current version appears to have that design fault solved).

If the way BMW handled the Top Case joke is anything to go by, then no-one will ever hear anything about the cause of valve failure in RHS cylinders, and BMW will beaver away in the background, quietly trying to solve the problem without ever admitting that there is one. Be warned that if your engine fails as mine did, BMW will only 'offer' to provide some assistance in the repair if you are prepared to fight for it, over a considerable period of time - there is nothing honourable or gracious in their approach. Deceitful and dishonest are two words that come to mind.

 

[littleredkelpie]

The failure on the new police r1200's is down to being on the side stand. I just don't leave mine ticking over for any length of time and mainly use the centre stand

With all due respect, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but like you I usually use the centre stand and never leave it idling on the side stand.

 

[littleredkelpie]

Originally posted by cusi

There is clearly a problem with the engine management system as the mechanics are primarily the same design. If the computer doesn't get the fuel mix right then you are asking for problems, compounded by the fact that some of these engines consume oil like 2 stroke.

In my original post I mentioned that the bike gave a couple of clues of what turned out to be imminent failure. As you suggest, I suspect fuel mix problems. Interestingly, I have travelled a few hundred kms on the rebuilt bike and armed with the clues it gave me first time around I reckon I can tell when it is stuffing up fuel mix/timing - it only ever 'does it' on the right hand side, and it happens almost every other day - sometimes for no more than a few seconds, other times for 5 - 10 minutes. It is subtle, but most noticeable at ide.

A work in progress I suspect.