Advice from electronic specialist please

[Bert]

BMW F650GS Dakar 2001

BMS-Compact control unit
Since all F650 engines whether for GS CS etc are the same (single spark models) between 2001 and 2003
and all those bikes have the sme BMS unit (part 7668133)
why is it (aside from possible legal implications/come back) that BMW say they cannot update or reprogram this unit?

It was previously on a CS not GS but that seems irrelevant as they are not 'bike dependant'...
I can understand that the software can't/may not be able to be updated but the unit can be erased and totally reprogrammed surely?
look at the print out statement....

The print out from the GT1 computer states:

" The update of the BMS-Compact control unit you selected cannot be performed because the control unit is programmed for another motorcycle series (type codes do not match)

Select the correct programming procedure:

- If a used control unit (which it is) is installed in a motorcycle of a different series (which it is)
it must be reprogrammed and this procedure includes a check to ascertain whether an update is necessary.
What I derive from this is:
The unit can be and needs to be fully reprogrammed not updated.

I plugged in the BMS unit and the bike fired up instantly and ticked over but delighted!!

Can anyone shed any light on this?
Is the problem a possible liability issue and nothing to do with a mechanical/procedural/software one?

Since the engines are the same and given that the programming is not bike dependant, is there any way that switching the unit between F650 bikes can actually cause damage? I just don't understand how but then I am not an engineer.

Techy info: FROM PRINT OUT
BMW Part number: 7668133
BMW Hardware version number: C2
Diagnosis index: 04
Date of manufacture: 13.11.2001
Manufacturer: Hella KG
Program status: 8000
Data release: 8000 4606
Motorcycle series: F650CS
Motorcycle variant ECE EU-2 three-way cat RON91
Type-test number 7655702
VIN in the control unit WB10174A72ZH02856

I'd appreciate any accurate advice!!!!

 

[Bert]

bump

bump anyone? any ideas?

 

[Rob Farmer]

" I'd appreciate any accurate advice!!!! "

I think you blew it with this comment. You didn't really think anybody here actually has a clue what they are talking about did you

 

[Bert]

ah well

One can but live in hope- I've had longer 'shots' that worked.
But I'm quieltly confident someone here has the answer...

As an engineering lay person, since I now know that all these engines are the same, whatever difference is in the software cannot be light years apart!
I've run the bike with the 'unknown' software for the CS and ....works fine- no (more than usual) backfires, no soft spots, does the job-
It would be comforting to know it had the latest software but hey, it runs with it- and as a back up in case the main fried- it will do the job-

 

[Mick O'Malley]

But I'm quietly confident someone here has the answer...

Hmmmmm. Someone here or here might.

Regards, Mick

 

[Bert]

Thanks

Thanks Mick - done that
I am awaiting a call from the new service manager at Beermers R Us to see if he can help.
Seems once the computer finds 'old software' it can only send an update to that software for that series of bike-

I am told there is no option within the program to send the software for the GS ont a bms unit which already has the CS software on-
So...... why not just send the software update for the CS since the engines are identical Something just doesn't gel here...

The print out for that dear computer is clear- the chip can be re-programmed totally. so why... - Hoping to be enlightened on Monday!

 

[Bert]

blank so far

No answers from any 650 forums
BUT
new service manager contacting BM HQ to see if override codes possible
I just wait and hope! will let you know outcome.

 

[Bert]

blank so far

No answers from any 650 forums
BUT
new service manager contacting BM HQ to see if he can obtain override codes for reprogramming.
will let you know outcome.

 

[Howard Millichap]

Bert,
Being an ex airhead man, I'm no expert on 650s. What exactly does the "BMS" control? Are the GS and the CS engines giving the power an torque figures? Only, if this unit is anything like my Triumph's unit, it has different programs according to power outputs, cams and type of exhaust etc etc. e.g. the Tiger has different cams and exhaust to the Daytona even though it's the same basic engine.
What I'm getting at here is that the unit will work on your GS but it may well have different ignition curves and injection mapping which could damage the engine because of incorrect combustion.

 

[Bert]

info

from what I have been told
Between 2000 and 2003 all F650 engines, whether GS or CS or Dakar have identical single spark engines.

If there were ignition/combustion problems this would have been felt by popping/backfiring/loss of power or and surges etc
None of the above have been experienced (to date!)

I guess I will have to wait to see if the service manager has been able to get whatever codes are required for their GT1 computer ( :flush ) to reprogramme the unit. What a bizz

 

[Howard Millichap]

I guess I will have to wait to see if the service manager has been able to get whatever codes are required to reprogramme the unit. What a bizz

Typical BMW though! i.e. nothing's as easy as it could be. Designed to empty your wallet.

 

[iain]

At my old place we used to do this.. and its not an ECU but..

We made 1 piece of electronics that processed audio in a certain way, we then made another unit with the exact same electronics but a different name on the outside and put a hardware link in that meant that you couldnt put the software from the original unit in it..

I would IMAGINE / GUESS that either the ECU has a connection to the biek which sets the model of bike OR the harware in the ECU has a set of jumpers that define what bike it goes in OR the software will not allow an update from a different bike..

Although as the engines are identical I just cant see the point.. is the power output or torque curve different on the CS and GS?

My twopeneth.

Iain.

 

[Bert]

At my old place we used to do this.. and its not an ECU but..

We made 1 piece of electronics that processed audio in a certain way, we then made another unit with the exact same electronics but a different name on the outside and put a hardware link in that meant that you couldnt put the software from the original unit in it..

I would IMAGINE / GUESS that either the ECU has a connection to the biek which sets the model of bike OR the harware in the ECU has a set of jumpers that define what bike it goes in OR the software will not allow an update from a different bike..

Although as the engines are identical I just cant see the point.. is the power output or torque curve different on the CS and GS?

My twopeneth.

Iain.

Once programmed from new, apparently the BM computer will not allow a reprogramming. It has- I have been told- no software option to erase and start again without a set of codes from BM HQ.....talk about complications- makes work for everyone-
Power output is, again I am told, the same on all these bikes.