Battery / starter motor again!!!

[JohnnyBoxer]

So that would be a starter failing through 'heat soak' when the engine is hot - Ill give your suggested test a go

I’d bet if it’s the original starter and if the bike has infrequent use, then it’ll be ready for a new one after 13 years
Treat it to a new battery too
How’s the alternator charging ?

 

[Santa-2512]

Holy thread resurrection Batman !!

 

[Wreford Miles]

Sounds like starter motor failing and drawing too much, when cranked
It pulls the battery down
Do a voltage test
Off
On
Cranking
That will yield your answer, if when cranking it drops to 10v or less then it’ll be a starter
Happened with my 1150 even with a brand new battery

Voltage ignition off 12.6
Voltage ignition on 12.3
Voltage when cranking drops to 9.8 but was starting
When the engine was running, charging was fine

So it seems it’s the starter motor - But here’s a thought:

Thinking about how I use the bike, I’d say the starter motor gets very little use. I start it I ride it I park it up, it’s rare that I’m stopping and starting during a ride. I wonder if I should just do a bit of stop start to see if the starter frees up

 

[Santa-2512]

Voltage ignition off 12.6
Voltage ignition on 12.3
Voltage when cranking drops to 9.8 but was starting
When the engine was running, charging was fine

So it seems it’s the starter motor - But here’s a thought:

Thinking about how I use the bike, I’d say the starter motor gets very little use. I start it I ride it I park it up, it’s rare that I’m stopping and starting during a ride. I wonder if I should just do a bit of stop start to see if the starter frees up

Just buy a new starter motorab and be done with it

Its lasted this long lol treat yourself

 

[seahorse]

I imagine your bike has a few miles on now. Might be worth taking the starter out and doing a strip and clean. New brush pack not expensive if they look worn. Done just this recently myself as well as new cables connected in parallel with existing ones. Made a bit of a difference for me anyway.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Voltage ignition off 12.6
Voltage ignition on 12.3
Voltage when cranking drops to 9.8 but was starting
When the engine was running, charging was fine

So it seems it’s the starter motor - But here’s a thought:

Thinking about how I use the bike, I’d say the starter motor gets very little use. I start it I ride it I park it up, it’s rare that I’m stopping and starting during a ride. I wonder if I should just do a bit of stop start to see if the starter frees up

Bingo
My 1150 did the same
It was the starter motor failing
New Valeo Starter and all has been fine for last 18 months
You don’t want to buy a new battery, only for the starter motor to wreck it

 

[Slipperyeel]

From everything I've seen lately with BMW motorcycles, full lithium batteries are a complete disaster ... I've heard tell of a hybrid battery that some are using in the UK and they seem to like them. Hybrid being both AGM and lithium. But a new AGM is a solid bet and many of the new 1300s that came with lithium are being converted back to AGM for the most part. You do have to tell the computer .... Or address the perimeter and adjust the charging voltage to the AGM level.
I also seen a guy at west denver BMW that had a Ural, a really neat machine, and he had put a lightweight lithium battery in it. It caused him many problems on a basically brand new bike, fuel pump went out, would start several times. A mechanic came out to help with the bike as it decided not to start when the fellow tried to leave. Myself and the mechanic talked him into putting an AGM in it ... It started right up and he drove it home ....

Well, on the 1300 you might be right, even possibly on the 1250 as any drop below a set amount, computer says no.

But my experience is on the twin cam and it's not what you describe. Lots of misinformation out there. My own view is based on some years of experience with this type of battery. I even bought another one, with a higher Amp hour rating to help fill the gap in the worst case scenario (winter, with heated clothing on, heated grips on and in traffic) and remove some load of the alternator. Maybe overkill, but not really after having done the numbers.

On the hex head and twin cam, I would recommend a lithium battery

 

[Larry Langford]

Well, on the 1300 you might be right, even possibly on the 1250 as any drop below a set amount, computer says no.

But my experience is on the twin cam and it's not what you describe. Lots of misinformation out there. My own view is based on some years of experience with this type of battery. I even bought another one, with a higher Amp hour rating to help fill the gap in the worst case scenario (winter, with heated clothing on, heated grips on and in traffic) and remove some load of the alternator. Maybe overkill, but not really after having done the numbers.

On the hex head and twin cam, I would recommend a lithium battery

Well actually, some of the latest news is saying the lithium is out now, anyway. A new sodium design of some sort is already shipping in electric cars. these sodium batteries are almost unaffected by cold, and most importantly, they do not burn things down. And they perform as well ....
I don't like lithium, they are a definite fire hazard, they flat out don't work in the real cold, and they seem to be a problem for electronics that were designed for lead acid DC current, often burning stuff out. The lithium was designed to deliver huge current very fast and I think that the lack of internal impedance is the possible problem.
Here is a thing, while someone such as yourself seems to get away with using them, It's pretty easy to see that someone giving advice on a forum probably shouldn't recommend them to folks who are not necessarily crack mechanics, to put one in a bike that wasn't designed for them ....

It is possible that some stricter guidelines for people giving advice or even just opinion on mc forums related to fixing stuff ..... A lot of potential for problems, and of course negative causality .....

 

[Santa-2512]

Lithium is fine if used correctly and with the battery management unit/ software

When you start playing around with it. Your on your own. Literally

 

[Wapping]

and of course negative causality .....

Are you positive about that?

 

[Larry Langford]

Are you positive about that?

absolutely, causality is very underrated in modern society imo. ..... PM me ...... as I'm not able to do that ....

 

[Wreford Miles]

I’ve ordered a new starter… I shall report back once fitted

I’m not going to touch the battery until the starter is fitted that way I’ll know from the first push of the button if things have improved
.
Anyway how is everyone?

Other than using the Vespa to dash about on I’ve not been using the GS much - I did a few months ago fit some Anakee Adventure 2 tyres after many years of using several sets of Avon Trailriders and I’m pleased with their performance.

It’s been a year of campervan travels for me, two trips. France and Italy via the mountain lakes and then another up into Norway, both cracking trips.

 

[Slipperyeel]

Well actually, some of the latest news is saying the lithium is out now, anyway. A new sodium design of some sort is already shipping in electric cars. these sodium batteries are almost unaffected by cold, and most importantly, they do not burn things down. And they perform as well ....
I don't like lithium, they are a definite fire hazard, they flat out don't work in the real cold, and they seem to be a problem for electronics that were designed for lead acid DC current, often burning stuff out. The lithium was designed to deliver huge current very fast and I think that the lack of internal impedance is the possible problem.
Here is a thing, while someone such as yourself seems to get away with using them, It's pretty easy to see that someone giving advice on a forum probably shouldn't recommend them to folks who are not necessarily crack mechanics, to put one in a bike that wasn't designed for them ....

It is possible that some stricter guidelines for people giving advice or even just opinion on mc forums related to fixing stuff ..... A lot of potential for problems, and of course negative causality .....

Sounds to me like you've been in the internet...a bit too long

Yes, know quite a lot about the sodium batteries actually. Like all these things, it's swings and roundabouts. Sodium has disadvantages also. Maybe you haven't bumped into those yet on your internet journey...

My bike has done very very well on its lithium battery thank you over more than 8 years now. So much so I am happy to recommend the Aliant unit to anyone looking to 'upgrade'

 

[Magwych]

I’ve ordered a new starter… I shall report back once fitted

Too late now but you can replace the brushes. When they wear the starter gets very slow to react when hot. New brushes fix that.
Keep your old starter, strip it down to replace the brushes and keep it as a standby. You could also sell it on ?

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Too late now but you can replace the brushes. When they wear the starter gets very slow to react when hot. New brushes fix that.
Keep your old starter, strip it down to replace the brushes and keep it as a standby. You could also sell it on ?

it's full of springs that go boing and disappear for ever though right?!!!

 

[seahorse]

it's full of springs that go boing and disappear for ever though right?!!!

If you buy brush pack it just replaces the whole thing including the plate and holders and even has a plastic keeper for the brushes. As you mount it the keeper is pushed out so no faffing about with trying to hold the brushes up against the springs. I'll see if I can find the Bosch part number. Assuming of course a Bosch is fitted as there are others.

Here it is;

1 004 336 506

 

[Magwych]

it's full of springs that go boing and disappear for ever though right?!!!

Depends.
You can put a small cable tie around things to hold them in place. Or, just fire them off into the darker recesses of the shed.
I may have posted some photos of mine back in 20 tenty-something ....

 

[Santa-2512]

If you buy brush pack it just replaces the whole thing including the plate and holders and even has a plastic keeper for the brushes. As you mount it the keeper is pushed out so no faffing about with trying to hold the brushes up against the springs. I'll see if I can find the Bosch part number. Assuming of course a Bosch is fitted as there are others.

Here it is;

1 004 336 506

A brush pack wont fix worn out magnets or solenoid,

Providing the comutator has enough undercut & the brushes have material, and they are kept pressing on the commutator by the springs,

they can run down to the minimum with no adverse effects