Brakes and ABS

[BLUEJAY]

Probably a question tha's been raised already.

I am seriously thinking about the F800GS for 2009 and I am trying to get as much info as I can before deciding, as this bike is on a fight with two other ones

So far, I must admit I am getting quite a bunch of feedback from this site and thank you all for that

Anyway, I have never had ABS and I'd be interested to hear the pros and cons of having/not having such a "technological" device on a motorcycle.

To be honest, as I like simple things I'd say NO ABS, but I am listening from those of you with more experience on this matter and try not to lean on any side... ...prepared to change my mind if necessary...

Thank you in advance.

Cheers

 

[twisticles]

Well...its the same old same old arguments really.

ABS is generally beneficial to any rider less abled than a MotoGP rider. The act of 'feathering' your brakes in the event of a lock-up is something not too many people have the presence of mind to accomplish in a panic braking scenario.

Theoretically, stopping distances are longer IF ABS KICKS IN. However, this is in situations where you would have locked one or both wheels if you didn't have ABS. Shorter stopping distance is no good if by stopping you mean high-siding or low-siding or generally crashing from a locked wheel. For every man who claims to be able to control a locked wheel in emergency braking situations I bet there are 10 that ended up on their arses.

ABS = more expensive bike
ABS = more residual value on resale (lots of punters look for ABS bikes)
ABS = way of the future (Honda will have ABS on its entire range by 2010)

On the F800GS, you can turn the ABS off for off-roading or if you don't like it.

If the ABS fails, you still have fully functioning brakes.

On balance of judgement, I think ABS makes sense for the vast majority of riders, most of the time. Not all of them (especially old crusty ones) but the majority.

I should add that for all those claims that ABS increases stopping distances, there are equally lots of situations where a rider on an ABS-equipped bike is able to stop quicker because he knows he can't lock his wheels up so he keeps on applying the levers.

Without ABS, a lot of riders chicken out of applying maximum braking 'in case' they lock up. And then take longer to stop.

 

[jarax]

Taken from Suzuki web site , but clear enough: http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/extra/000057/

Shows how ABS operates on different surfaces.

My opinion - ABS is must for road travelling, and i switch it of for offroad use

 

[Coolcarbon]

If it saves your arse just once......

But of course, the riding Gods may tell you otherwise....

 

[Brian ROSEN]

Reasale value

When it comes to sell more and more motorcyclists will insist on ABS on a used bike. Remember that virtually EVERY car has it now (not to mention lorries and buses.) If a 4 wheel 'panic brakes' in front of you - you MAY be clever enough to avoid him without ABS, if you are 100% awake!

 

[BM_donator]

Bear in mind that tarmac surface can fool the system a tad for instance -when braking over the thick paint lines used as small sleeping policemen when approaching roundabouts, the system can detect that the front wheel has briefly changed speed whilst hopping over the paint and the ABS could then activate and briefly release the brakes - the first time it happens gives you pause for thought but once you realize why the brakes did it and get used to it then it is not an issue.

As per the ABS Brake Problem thread I started - once you know what it is, you know the brakes will return as quickly as they left. I think I may have panicked the first time and let go of the brake levers losing all braking power - no doubt as other F800GS/S/ST owners may have done - and this may make the momentary ABS intervention seem worse.
The second time I think I maintained pressure on the levers and the sensation of having no brakes seemed less severe.

Funny that I've had ABS cars for over 10 years with countless interventions of ABS and never worried about it.

Perhaps we always need something to worry about. Funny old world.

 

[Brian ROSEN]

Put very clearly

I stand by my post from last time I saw a thread of this nature:
I spent a day on an advanced riding skills course. I turned the ABS off, practiced braking, locking fronts and rears, and had a superb time.
I did the same on a BMW off road skills course, locking front and rear, no dramas, no problems.
As I got on my bike to ride home (on both occassions) I made damn sure the ABS was on.
On a course, racetrack etc you are focused on nothing but the bike control, on a public road you have far too much to worry about without being constantly aware of the exact level of grip the road surface offers etc etc.

I would go one further. If after an impatient startup I notice the ABS has not come in - I will stop and go through the cycle again. I have not used the ABS in anger as yet ( in about 8 years) nor have I used the seat belts or air bags in my car. But nice to know they are there and are not going to doze off.

 

[Micky]

In the Eifel's of Germany last November (three bikes, two without ABS, one with) and again in the Black Forest last month (five bikes, three with ABS and two without) we were caught in blizzard conditions, hard packed snow and ice...

The only 'bikes to go down were the ABS equipped ones, not one none ABS 'bike fell. One ABS equipped 'bike in the Black Forest remained upright

Maybe not good figures to work on... but that's how it was....

Now don't ask me why cos I don't know

 

[Brian ROSEN]

"we were caught in blizzard conditions, hard packed snow and ice..." With all due respect, under these sort of conditions the last thing that is going to decide whether you stay upright is the brakes. ABS, cables, hydraulics, linked or not, discs or drums - take your pick but it won't make any difference..

 

[Micky]

"we were caught in blizzard conditions, hard packed snow and ice..." With all due respect, under these sort of conditions the last thing that is going to decide whether you stay upright is the brakes. ABS, cables, hydraulics, linked or not, discs or drums - take your pick but it won't make any difference..

I totally agree Brian, but you still need to slow down at some stage or other. All I'm saying is that it was the ABS 'bikes that went down... what people make of that is up to them. Bluejay is merely asking for observations and these are mine.

As an aside, in 46 years of riding motorcycles I've had quite a few 'accidents' of which every one has been my fault, but in none of them would having ABS have made any difference!

When I say every accident has been my fault, for instance, a guy pulled across my bows turning right across my path... if I'd noticed him slowing down I'd have made sure that I wasn't at that junction the same time as him. I'd have given the bike a squirt and got there before him, or eased the throttle and let him make his right turn in front of me. But my mind was on something else of course, I didn't notice him... his fault completely of course, his insurance paid up, but in my mind I failed to spot a prat, on this occasion two prats... him and me But I consider the accident my fault!

I don't intend to get in to a debate over ABS or not, that's all been well documented before.... each to their own and long may it be so



www.adventure.gs

 

[bowser]

who needs it

Who need ABS, nobody!

Until of course that one day when the road is a bit to wet and your in a bit too much of a hurry and somthing happens then ask would you want it?

Got to say my 1100 is non abs, I have had a couple of incident that I have got away with but to be honest I probably wouldnt have got into the same problem if I had A) paid more attention or B) had ABS.

Be honest with yourself and your ability and then make the decision.

 

[Spout]

No one has discussed the technical advantages/disadvantages yet.

ABS equiped bike will be heavier (not much though) and less easy for the home tinkerer. That's it isn't it? .............

 

[Der Lustenauer]

Who here, would by a fast and powerful 4x4, like the Porsche Cayenne or similar for example, without ABS, if it would be available at all?

A typical GS spends most of its life being parked somewhere, less time on the road, and even less offroad, just like their 4x4 counterparts.

And for road use I think ABS is great, in the car and on the bike, even for experienced riders or drivers.
As for why people want to switch the ABS off offroad or in the snow, I think that has nothing to do with braking as in 'bringing the bike to a controlled stop as quick as possible'. An ABS equiped bike with the ABS switched on would do that just as well as one without ABS.
Where there is no grip they both fail in their braking, or do I miss something here?.
There is other reasons why one wants to be able to lock one or the other wheel.

 

[Micky]

The best thing about the F800GS is that to a certain extent they all have ABS

An early road tester feared that the brakes might not be up to hard braking when full laden

The brakes most certainly aren't as keen as the F800ST which has four pot calipers, and the GS needs a really gud pull on the lever for good braking effect!

"....I don't intend to get in to a debate over ABS or not, that's all been well documented before.... " Ah, but that is exactly what you have got into!
You are an old timer - but I learnt to ride on a bike with hand change using pink petrol. but then they had ABS as well Brian, just like my MZ 250 Supafive



www.adventure.gs

 

[motobiker]

I'm not looking to replace my 1100 - BUT if I was looking for something a bit different then yes... I would definitely be looking at 2nd hand 800's AND it would have to have ABS fitted.


non ABS bikes... I would pass them by as a definite NO-NO.


Make of that what you will.

 

[BM_donator]

Handy this morning

Passing traffic on the "dirty" bit in the middle of the road this morning (lazy bleedin councils!) and white van numpty on the other side of the road decides he wants the same bit of road.
Braked to pull in to the left whilst passing through assorted gravel, fag packets and other crap - slight vibration in the levers as the ABS held things straight and helped me into the space. Could I have held it together without ABS? Probably, but I didn't have to find out.
Any early doubts I had are starting to fade - the option seems like a better idea today!

 

[Tim Cullis]

I've done getting towards 3,000 miles offroad in Morocco and even though I've done the level 2 offroad course twice, I keep ABS on when offroading. I don't go terrifically fast so the potential for occasional additional braking distance isn't a problem, and I would rather not dump the bike.

But it's a pity there's not a part-ABS setting in which the front brake would still have anti lock, but you could skid the rear for drift cornering.

Spout: the additional weight of the later version of ABS on the 1200GS was only about 1.5kg.

Tim
PS: I read a review of the 2008 12GS somewhere in which the journalist complained that the ABS kept kicking in on the rear brake. I don't think he realised the bike had semi-linked brakes in which the front lever activated both; he was undoubtedly also using the rear brake as well! Pity the 650/800 brakes are not semi linked.

 

[Brian ROSEN]

Whatever next ?

"....in which the front brake would still have anti lock, but you could skid the rear for drift cornering...." Good Lord, the driving in Eastbourne has changed dramatically since I lived near there (Hankham) many years ago! Being serious I also regret that the 800GS does not have the linked brakes (nor the servo) that I had on my 1200.

 

[Der Lustenauer]

I've done getting towards 3,000 miles offroad in Morocco and even though I've done the level 2 offroad course twice, I keep ABS on when offroading. I don't go terrifically fast so the potential for occasional additional braking distance isn't a problem, and I would rather not dump the bike.

But it's a pity there's not a part-ABS setting in which the front brake would still have anti lock, but you could skid the rear for drift cornering.

I might be just stupid, but I do not understand why for braking purposes, offroad or just on gravel, ABS should be worse than normal brakes. Would be interested to learn more about that.

So far I have never owned a bike with ABS, but had it in several cars, I loved it, on snow and ice, love to have ESP as well in the cars, not that I ever felt ESP doing anything. Must probably try harder. My next bike will certainly have ABS, your post Tim assured me even more.

 

[Brian ROSEN]

You forget that in theory these GS's are off road bikes and when you ride off road there are times when you might want to provoke a skid to slide the back around - with ABS that might be difficult. Also when you are off-road it is much more important tht you retain a greater feel for the tyres and the ground and you don't want any artificial locking/unlocking of the wheels - you do that yourself. Now does that sound convincing? I would not dream of going off road with one of the unwiledly monsters (unless it belonged to someone else) and in fact all my off road experience was on other people's (the King's mainly) bikes! Dates me a bit so you may not believe any of this!