Crown Wheel Bearing

[Smudge]

Just ordered a crown wheel bearing to replace the one on my 1150, which is totally kerry packered
I would normally say 'not to worry .. get it done and I won't ever have to do this job again' except, that is what I said 8,000 miles ago when I last changed it
How often should we change these bearings? How long should they last? was the last one I put in from a dodgy batch or summink?

I know its not a big job but its £60 every time they collapse

Anyone else out there had a similar reoccuring problem with their rear ?

 

[how far to]

hello,been through a similar experience and can only empathise.This is a big issue on some of the US sites,I went looking here trying to discover answers and basically it seems bearing replacement is just dealing with the symptoms and not the problem.It seems this is an issue to do with incorrect assembly of the FD at manufacture,the most plausible explanation being one of incorrect shim selection(wouldnt be hard there are 30 different bmw shim part numbers).If too much pressure is exerted by the shim,bye bye bearing.By just replacing the bearing we have just set it up to fail again.The leading exponent of this theory is a guy called Anton Largiader,his work is impessive and to me highly plausible.Check out his final drives article on BMWRA site and visit www.largiader.com Cheers

 

[Paul G (BHT)]

My original bearing lasted 40,000 miles before it started to break up.

I fitted a new one, but didn't heat it up correctly and ended up 'tapping' it in to place. The result was the bearing was now being subjected to a side loading due to it not seating correctly on the crown wheel, it lasted 2,000 miles When I removed it you could see the 'burning' on the one 'side wall' of the race and not on the other.

I replaced it again and made sure it was hot enough to just drop into place, it has been on there for just over 38,000 miles now

 

[Smudge]

Thanks

Thanks for your input gents .. interesting site link .. I will be ensureing the bearing is nice and hot paul.. thanks

 

[Pekkavee]

Thanks for your input gents .. interesting site link .. I will be ensureing the bearing is nice and hot paul.. thanks

It helps to put the crown wheel into a deep-freezer for on hour or two.

Pekka

 

[Smudge]

It helps to put the crown wheel into a deep-freezer for on hour or two.

Pekka

Cheers Pekks.. will do

 

[how far to]

hello smudge,sorry to labour the point but if you only got 8k out of the last oneand presumably you fitted it correctly,I would argue that there is an underlying problem here.I got my last one installed by a gearbox guy who completely dis mantled it.I have a different amount of backlash to that stated in Antons stuff,but touchwood (18k) it seems to be ok.The danger if you follow the various american threads is the next time you could be looking at total destruction rather than just a bearing.Expensive,inconvenient and if you are unlucky,potentialy dangerous.Sorry to be a harbinger of doom but presumption is the mother of all f£££ ups!Cheers

 

[Smudge]

hello smudge,sorry to labour the point but if you only got 8k out of the last oneand presumably you fitted it correctly,I would argue that there is an underlying problem here.I got my last one installed by a gearbox guy who completely dis mantled it.I have a different amount of backlash to that stated in Antons stuff,but touchwood (18k) it seems to be ok.The danger if you follow the various american threads is the next time you could be looking at total destruction rather than just a bearing.Expensive,inconvenient and if you are unlucky,potentialy dangerous.Sorry to be a harbinger of doom but presumption is the mother of all f£££ ups!Cheers

Point taken matey .. Rest assured the haynes manual will be well and truly interogated

 

[Colban]

Point taken matey .. Rest assured the haynes manual will be well and truly interogated

Section 5 of my Haynes manual covering final drive,page 5-20.
Quote "Further dismantling and set-up of the drive housing are beyond the scope of this manual".
It just covers removal and replacement of the unit.
Sometimes with Haynes manuals,the expessions "as useful as chocolate teapots or tits on fish" spring to mind.
Because your drive has failed so soon after the bearing change,it may be worth taking the drive to a proper BWM dealer or specialist who should have the correct set-up tools to shim it correctly.

Otherwise,as stated above,freezer for crown gear,heat the bearing and another thing...clean the bearing seat surface on the gear with 600 grit wet and dry to eliminate high spots etc.

 

[Rugged Path]

Having covered 80K kilometers on my 1150 GS Adv. here in Saudi, I'm feeling blessed by almighty Allah already Ain't no Beemer dealer where I live; only camel dealers. Bad roads, highways and road humps give me the rattles.

My beef is the need to buy a battery every year due to the severe hot weather :sunshine.

 

[how far to]

Colban +1 when you buy the bearing be aware that the sausage factory replaced it with a completely different 17 ball set up.I think the original was 14?.You want 33121468899 bearing grooved 85 by120 by18,definitely NOT 33121242210 this is obsolete.You may decide to replace the one on the other side .This is 33121451188 bearing 25 by52by16.25,really would recommend this as if there is play in it like mine,over time I think it will take out the gears.Cheers ps wouldnt trust the sausage factory to do this (glorified fitters IMO!) I would go to an independent whos done it

 

[BrianR]

Same problem need help

Chaps

Going through this very thing after a lengthy trip in Morocco
See http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156235



Does anyone know someone who rebuilds theses things well. I am off on a more distant longer trip and need reliability


Thanks in advance

BrianR

 

[Steptoe]

Colban +1 when you buy the bearing be aware that the sausage factory replaced it with a completely different 17 ball set up.I think the original was 14?.You want 33121468899 bearing grooved 85 by120 by18,definitely NOT 33121242210 this is obsolete.You may decide to replace the one on the other side .This is 33121451188 bearing 25 by52by16.25,really would recommend this as if there is play in it like mine,over time I think it will take out the gears.Cheers ps wouldnt trust the sausage factory to do this (glorified fitters IMO!) I would go to an independent whos done it

No no no no no - this is all wrong, in fact it's bollox. Sounds like someone has been reading on the internet again. -

I've never read so many posts on a subject where most have no experience of doing the actual job asked about.

There is also no need to put the crown wheel in the freezer. Just heat the bearing on a sandwich toaster and it'll fall in place - In fact you have to cool it to stop the bearing falling off the flange as you put it into the heated cover.

And as BHT says, heat the cover before inserting the flange and bearing to stop any side loading.

 

[how far to]

hello Brian,if the gears are damaged,IMO it is scrap .What sort of state was it in?How many miles had the bike done?How many miles did you do on it?Did you or the previous owner repair it?The issue here is obviously some FDs will fail normally.A small proportion may have been incorrectly assembled with the wrong shim preloading which in turn leads to bearing failure.If you are like Paul BHT and got a reasonable mileage before failure,and the gears are not damaged then perhaps you have a good one.Was the oil changed religiously?Was the oil emulsified?I managed to kill one through river fording and water coming in through the breather,doh!Not so long ago there was a lad on here with FD failure who alledgedly had been playing on the beach.Point is that some will fail as a matter of course,its normal and in my opinion people have unrealistic expectations of a mechanical part that by its very nature is asked to do an awful lot.Many will go through abuse (guilty of one count M,Lud) or just plain neglect,its unreasonable to moan when this happens.However Smidges symptoms seem to fit the incorrect assembly hypothesis,I also bought what I suspect was a bad one(2 failures in 20k) Cheers

 

[Steptoe]

hello Brian,if the gears are damaged,IMO it is scrap .

[URL="http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85786&highlight=final+drive"]THIS[/URL] is scrap.

These bearings made a terrible noises and felt very rough. But look how little they were damaged.
It's also another reason why you should change the FD oil regularly, not so much to prevent bearing failure, but so you can inspect the oil to give you warning of failure.

 

[how far to]

Hello Steptoe,sorry? "this is bollox" Did BMW not bring out a modified bearing?Have I got its size wrong,or described the difference between the 2 bearings incorrectly? Have I got the part numbers wrong?When two bearings on a shaft are damaged is it bad practice to renew both of them?Do you think that not replacing one of the bearings and leaving float in the shaft wont trash a crown and pinion gear set up? Or do you recommend taking it to an official BMW dealer rather than a good independent? Cheers

 

[Steptoe]

" Did BMW not bring out a modified bearing?

Have I got its size wrong,or described the difference between the 2 bearings incorrectly?

No. They use a 19 ball roller bearing ( the same as they have done in the FD since the K series came out in 1984) . Some have said they brought out a 17 ball bearing, i've never seen one or used one, just heard it on the internet - Until i see one or someone shows me one to confirm it, how can i have an opinion and offer suggestions about it .


Yes.

 

[how far to]

hello,Got my 33121468899 bearing from Berlin,wrote the number in my PDA for future ref,see what you mean because I cant find it on English system.However www.chicagobmwmotorcycle.com/url] w...d find.Point taken about availability! Cheers

 

[Pekkavee]

All you need is
the bearing, part number 3312 1242 210,
and the shaft seal, part number 3312 7663 482
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/MainDiagrams.asp?VIN=zc44008
Have a look in 33-REAR AXLE
These are BMW original parts.

Pekka

 

[BrianR]

Just a bit of background on my bike. A R1100GS 97 picked it up with 33K miles on it 2 months ago, Have loads of service history no mention of any FD work. Did a fluids and filter change on it (no I didn’t change the FD oil but checked the level……doh). Took off for morocco fully loaded with my new wife on board. Did over 3k miles over 11 days in very hot conditions

All went well until half way up through France about 300 miles from home when I felt the vibration, on inspection found some oil on the panniers and wheel. A very nervous ride back stopping every 50 miles to add oil to the FD.

Got home and on queue all the oil flooded out of the FD.

I am stripping it down this weekend. This is my first GS and we are prepping the bike for a much longer trip next year. I was not impressed that the FD failed (these things happen I guess) but I was impressed that the dam thing kept going.

I will take pics this weekend and post. Steptoe has already given me advice (thanks) and will continue the post mortem then