Dazed & Confused

[King Rat]

Not the Led Zep version either.

I am looking into getting a lighter machine for being able to get over my fear of offroading - I shall keep one 1150 Adv, sell the other and have a 650 as the second bike for more local trips and getty muddy. That is where the confusion arises

GS650 Sertao type of 650 (GS single)

X-Country / Challenge

I have spent ages trawling to find out about them....anyone care to enlighten from the benefit of experience of any please.
Are they the same engine in both styles?
Any known problems to be aware of?
What about building a ruffty tuffty bike out of one - any better than others? Soft panniers and tank bag...farkle additions.
Those air bag suspension units (lorry cab suspension by the look of it) - thoughts?

Please, help me make a decision....thank you.

 

[Timolgra]

I am looking into getting a lighter machine .......anyone care to enlighten

The BMs weigh a ton for a 650 single, I look elsewhere.

 

[Dansin]

Tim's right. They're great bikes but lardy for a 650 single. My Dakar is now great off and on road but it's taken a lot of mods to get it to where it is. I also have a 690 Enduro R which is a mile better off road straight out of the box. A mate has an x challenge which is marginally better than a standard Dakar but not a patch on the 690.

 

[Timolgra]

Tim's right. They're great bikes but lardy for a 650 single. My Dakar is now great off and on road but it's taken a lot of mods to get it to where it is. I also have a 690 Enduro R which is a mile better off road straight out of the box. A mate has an x challenge which is marginally better than a standard Dakar but not a patch on the 690.

Yes, an XChallenge would be the best bet if it needs to be a BMW. There was a time when I'd have said the XC is probably the most reliable but the last three terminal breakdowns that I witnessed on long trips have all been XC's, perhaps just bad luck though

 

[mikeyboy]

Not the Led Zep version either.

I am looking into getting a lighter machine for being able to get over my fear of offroading - I shall keep one 1150 Adv, sell the other and have a 650 as the second bike for more local trips and getty muddy. That is where the confusion arises

GS650 Sertao type of 650 (GS single)

X-Country / Challenge

I have spent ages trawling to find out about them....anyone care to enlighten from the benefit of experience of any please.
Are they the same engine in both styles?
Any known problems to be aware of?
What about building a ruffty tuffty bike out of one - any better than others? Soft panniers and tank bag...farkle additions.
Those air bag suspension units (lorry cab suspension by the look of it) - thoughts?

Please, help me make a decision....thank you.

How about this?

 

[Dansin]

Yes, an XChallenge would be the best bet if it needs to be a BMW. There was a time when I'd have said the XC is probably the most reliable but the last three terminal breakdowns that I witnessed on long trips have all been XC's, perhaps just bad luck though

They all have their mechanical/electrical weak points.

In answer to the op's questions:-

The 650 rotax engine is basically the same in all the bike plus the Pegaso, Terra and others.

Common issues are water pump failure. All bearings lack grease from the factory and may require replacement. If you search you'll find a few others.

You can build anything into anything if you really want to. Common mods for the Dakar and Sertao are usd forks, lighter exhaust and throwing away anything you can to save weight for when you're picking it up.

They're all good bikes but just not great at anything. Saying that I don't I'll ever sell my Dakar as its now great.

 

[GFJ]

I am an avid xchallenge fan for their all round versatility (which also means master of none!), but I have other bikes for when more specific functions are being performed.

If the aim is to build confidence on the trails, then there are better more manageable bikes for that purpose. I'd suggest, like any bigger bike, the xchallenge is a bike you'd grow into, rather than learn on.

WR250, TTR250 or similar may be a better option. There have also been a couple of other 250s in the for sale section recently. The xchallenge is a tall bike!

 

[King Rat]

Thanks for the replies - I think I may have misled with my mentioning of 'off road' - to me this means any forest track that most people could get a HD electraglide down happily...I am fearful of such a road. I did go with Skygod out in the Peaks around his home, a day organised by someone off here. He said my 1150 would have happily gone anywhere we went that day....I borrowed one of his whatever it was, a white and red one!

My idea of 'off road' would be like the Pyrenees smugglers trail - to me that is really off road and needs treating carefully. You lot would hoon along it at 35mph or something daft....I'll be doing 15mph even on a proper off road machine.

I have since found specs on Sertao, X Challenge and X Country.....Bigger fuel tank on Country than Challenge, which makes a difference. Country sounds better than Challenge for me - Sertao 21 inch front, Country 19 inch...not a huge difference in my eyes, but the 40kgs weight penalty for the Sertao puts me off, unless people can tell me it is easy to lose 30kgs and get it closer.

The other option is to look for something else - but please, forget off road HOONING capability. I just need capability, not racer type stuff (KTM suggestions take note - useless for what I want - I couldn't sit on a KTM for more than about 10 minutes. What a crap seating position). Far too narrow seat, horrible upswept slant to it. Me no likely at all. You will love it, and say stand up - what from here to Fort William? I need good touring aspects as well. Also considering CCM GP450 Adventure. Not sure about the little engine, love the frame and concept. Again, seat needs reworking, bloody horrible. Other aspects were great.

Still dazed, less confused! The trouble is, I don't know enough models to look for. I know Suzuki make something and probably Yamaha (not the 600 Tenere though - hate them!) Honda? Any others to look at - off roader that can do long road miles economically. Please.

 

[King Rat]

The red and white bike pictured above, what is it?
How old is it?
How much is it?
What comes with it?

 

[Toddmeister]

Also considering CCM GP450 Adventure. Not sure about the little engine, love the frame and concept. Again, seat needs reworking, bloody horrible. Other aspects were great. .

CCM do a proper seat as an optional extra which is much better and you can sit all day on it.
They will also arrange a guided test ride on both road and off road so you can try the bike out. It's well worth doing!

 

[King Rat]

CCM do a proper seat as an optional extra which is much better and you can sit all day on it.
They will also arrange a guided test ride on both road and off road so you can try the bike out. It's well worth doing!

Maybe that si where to start then - I did look at their stand and the guy spent ages with me at the Adv they had on the stand. Very few people were taking any interest (Tuesday - quiet). My advantage. Looking at what people were doing with them around the place they look very capable and very light - but is a 450 going to be irksome on a long run? Is the engine smoothed with a balancer shaft, do you happen to know? I didn't know the 650 was until today when reading up on them. I ride my bike, not read the newspaper about them! I buy a bike and then use it and want it to last a long time. I don't chop and change - a new bike is a big step for me. Before the Adv (which I have now had 14 years) I had an RS100 and it had 337,000 miles on it when I sold it after 22 years ownership, it had about 37,000 on it when I bought it - just to put things in perspective. Lots of road experience, bugger all off road experience (maybe 1o0 miles in total throughout my riding life). I want that to change!!

 

[Hustler]

Thanks for the replies - I think I may have misled with my mentioning of 'off road' - to me this means any forest track that most people could get a HD electraglide down happily...I am fearful of such a road. I did go with Skygod out in the Peaks around his home, a day organised by someone off here. He said my 1150 would have happily gone anywhere we went that day....I borrowed one of his whatever it was, a white and red one!

My idea of 'off road' would be like the Pyrenees smugglers trail - to me that is really off road and needs treating carefully. You lot would hoon along it at 35mph or something daft....I'll be doing 15mph even on a proper off road machine.
............

If you want a little bimbling machine then may I suggest the humble Yamaha XT225 Serow.

 

[King Rat]

If you want a little bimbling machine then may I suggest the humble Yamaha XT225 Serow.

But I think it might be too small for getting anywhere - happy to bimble over the rough stuff when I get to it.....a friend had a Serow, pretty little bike and he used it around the fields and lanes on The Lizard. I was hoping for a bit more long leggedness. Not in a rush, winter is coming.

 

[Toddmeister]

is a 450 going to be irksome on a long run? Is the engine smoothed with a balancer shaft, do you happen to know? !

I own a CCM450GP and took it on trips to Morocco and Iceland this year (plenty of pics on here of me falling off it ). Happy to help with more info if you pm me.
It's a very capable bike and the engine is pretty smooth for a single. There's one lady owner who is currently riding hers across Europe and is now in Africa on her way to Cape Town so it would seem to do distances just fine.

What will suit you best is a very personal thing, which is why you should do as much test riding as possible. The Honda and Yam 250s are great bikes, as are the options like DR350 and the XC650. They can all do what you seem to require to varying degrees.

You probably need to think carefully about what you really want to do on the bike since the more off road you go (particularly if it's going to be a bit gnarly) then the smaller and lighter you want the bike to be. If you're going to do more road and maybe carry camping gear etc. then you'll want to get one of the slightly bigger bikes.

 

[solidstate100]

The red and white bike pictured above, what is it?
How old is it?
How much is it?
What comes with it?

It a BMW funduro. With a red painted frame........and a few farkles on it. Good bikes but probably the lardiest of the lot. I have one and love it.

 

[King Rat]

I own a CCM450GP and took it on trips to Morocco and Iceland this year (plenty of pics on here of me falling off it ). Happy to help with more info if you pm me.
It's a very capable bike and the engine is pretty smooth for a single. There's one lady owner who is currently riding hers across Europe and is now in Africa on her way to Cape Town so it would seem to do distances just fine.

What will suit you best is a very personal thing, which is why you should do as much test riding as possible. The Honda and Yam 250s are great bikes, as are the options like DR350 and the XC650. They can all do what you seem to require to varying degrees.

You probably need to think carefully about what you really want to do on the bike since the more off road you go (particularly if it's going to be a bit gnarly) then the smaller and lighter you want the bike to be. If you're going to do more road and maybe carry camping gear etc. then you'll want to get one of the slightly bigger bikes.

Wendy - I am following her progress. Hopefully she will be able to avail herself of our kayak tours in Cape Bay when she gets there!

Finally, someone who gets what I am trying to find. Exactly the kind of thing I am after - a bike I could actually do the Stella Alpina on (note one that I COULD DO the Stella on - not you with your vast experience and marvellous control and skills and greater courage!) Off to see a G650 X-Country in the morning. Hopefully I will gel with it. Anyone any thoughts on this particular model 2009 version. The one that was in the For Sale section.

Thanks for all your comments and input. It has given me encouragement in a vast sea of bewilderment.

 

[mikeyboy]

The red and white bike pictured above, what is it?
How old is it?
How much is it?
What comes with it?

The bike was, a late 99/2000 funduro,
It has a 27 litre tank which gives 300 miles range
It has a high compression piston,decent exhaust and the carbs have been rejetted ,which means it has more poke than pretty much any other 650 single you could buy,,,lol.
The forks were originally fitted to a drz400,fully adjustable for compression and rebound damping,though it could do with a slightly stiffer pair of springs
21" front wheel,,bespoke parts all over it.
I built the bike for a trip to the Pyrenees,two years ago ,full rebuild from the tyres up,so it's done 2.5 k miles on the trip,plus a few other outings.
I would happily throw my leg over this bike and embark on a big trip,however,I have taken the bike to a point where no more improvements can really be made,and am building a new bike for next years trip(640ktm)
Back to back,the BMW is better than a stock 640 .
But that will be a different story
Edit,the bike is for sale,it won't suit everyone,but it really is a well sorted machine.
I'm not selling it because I want rid.
I'm selling to create some space and appreciate I will not recoup the build costs.
Feel free to pm or phone for more info
Mike07786340692