Expedition type First aid kit advice needed please.

[Fanum]

I have a fairly good first aid kit in our support truck, but on checking kit lists now I've found it's got a bit damp and needs updating anyway so before our next trip (3 weeks) I want to get that sorted out.

I also carry a basic kit on my bike and that could do with replacing /improving as well.

I'm not medically qualified but have had a fair bit of first aid training in the past and most if not all of the staff we have are, or have been, trained to a pretty reasonable level as well (Ex Military, police or expedition leaders in their own right)

So....what I'm looking for is two kits, one in the Landrover that can be bigger/heavier and better equipped, and a smaller lighter one for the lead bike on the trips.


Both must be Bike accident focused and I'd look to adding hot weather focused stuff as well (more rehydration salts, sun burn stuff etc)
(We already carry 30 or more satchets of rehydration salts , loperamide and so on)

They are to support a max of 15 people including staff on trips that go fairly remote in moderately harsh environments (mountains, deserts, up to 100 miles from hospitals)

I've considered back boards as well, but haven't found one that's small enough/portable enough to be sensible yet...thoughts welcome on this.

I would like to be carrying some paramedic level kit as well....not for our use, but in a bad accident there may well be a doctor close by who could use the more advanced kit if we have it.

One kit that seems fairly good for the support truck is this one at around £100

Shock-proof polypropylene case
Water resistant with QuickFind
Primary & dental care leaflets
Sterile card, scalpel, silk suture
Hypodermic needles & syringes
Tweezers, safety pins, shears
Fabric dressing strip & burn gel
Wound closure strips & scissors
Woven & triangular bandages
Dental mirror, spatula & clove oil
Dental filling cement, cotton rolls
Sam splint
Crepe bandage & thermometer
Low-adherent dressings
Medium & eyepad dressings
Fabric & blister plasters
Vinyl gloves & guaze swabs
Paracetamol & ibuprofen
Antiseptic wipes & cream
Resusci-Aid & immodium
Zinc oxide & micropore tape
Duct tape & glow stick

And I've been looking at various bright-red ortlieb bag based kits as a good basis for a lead bike kit but haven't found anything quite right yet.

Would very much welcome comments and input from anyone properly qualified

I'd also be interested to know if anyone's had success obtaining things like Generic broad-spectrum antibiotics, Epi pens and the like that would be sensible and suitable for us to carry....how is this done and will Doctors prescribe such things for this sort of purpose?



TY

 

[paul nicholls]

first aid.

try having a look at SP Services they supply all manner of stuff and can even customise to your needs.
as for drug supplies, dont know! im a qulified paramedic and i cant buy prescription meds. try getting your clients to visit thier own gp prior to travelling, explain the nature of the journey and they will usually give them a script for antibiotics and strong pain killers,
as for a long board? most injuries can be coped with good first aid, with some exceptions, ie chest and or internal injuries, but your worst nightmare would be a spinal injury.
having seen the quality of rural maroccon ambulances first hand, that would be my biggest worry!!
however, sp[ive no connection other than lots of paramedics buy from them]sell a range of vaccume splints that can be used for full body immobalisation, and dont forget that youd also need a stiff neck collar,
but the biggest thing would be the correct training in how to use them,
if i can be of anyfurther help drop me a pm and ill send you my email address and mob no.





,

 

[AdamA]

One kit that seems fairly good for the support truck is this one at around £100

Practically all of that money is going on the case.


http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk/products/default.asp?productId=F30068 would be my suggestion, then buy some individual bits of kit if you feel it needs bolstering further.

Also I would recommend this:
http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/training-courses/courses-for-the-general-public/motorcyclists.aspx
or this if you can spare the time:
http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/training-courses/courses-for-the-general-public/total-first-aid.aspx

And just a suggestion, but the 1st aid kit would be far better placed on the bike at the back and perhaps another in the middle (esp if you are likely to end up with "faster" and "slower" sub groups) as they are far more likely to arrive on scene earlier than word gets to the lead bike.

 

[Jaq]

I was going to suggest epipens and neck collars....soft ones as well as hard....
TBH, Bill, I think the most important thing for you to do (if you haven't done so already), would be to undertake some emergency first aid training, you say you've done some in the past, but it may be a good idea to update, as stuff like Resuscitation Guidelines has changed....it's great that you have things like airways etc, but if you're not sure how to use them, then there's not alot of point in carrying them......
Another consideration (although I'm not sure of the cost), would be a 'Heartstart'....if anyone has a cardiac arrest (possibly as a result of anaphylactic shock, amongst other causes), you put the paddles on the casualtys chest and the machine shocks the heart if appropriate....
Blimey, I really sound optimistic.....sorry......

 

[Fanum]

Adam...I agree, but there's a time factor involved as well so if I could find a suitable ready made kit, the difference in price and time saving may well be worth buying that way- I did find the Stjohnsspplies website earlier and had a look and I'll revisit the idea of making a kit up in a Peli case or similar (Stuff does get knocked about and damp in the Landy a fair bit so that sort of case seems sensible)

As for lead or front bike, we're never far away from eachother (hundreds of metres rather than several KM usually) and are linked by 2 way radios with 14mile ranges, so that's not a major worry- My bike is usually lead and it's just that I have greater carrying capacity.


Stiff-neck collar....thanks Paul, must admit I'd focused on backboard rather than collar but we do have sand ladders that could (in an emergency) be rigged as boards so I'll have a look up on neck collars...smaller and lighter too so might be sensible.

Jaq- I've had that sort of training (and try and keep myself updated as well)

Defibrillators are very expensive though and that might put them out of our reach- the heartstart ones you're talking about would be ideal as they're designed for idiots to use (well, targeted at the American home market anyway) but they come out at around £800 each, unless you know better

There's obviously a limit to how far we can, or should reasonably be expected to go

The drugs situation is daft isn't it.....I actually needed an Epi pen urgently 18 months or so ago when MikeP got stung and went into anaphylactic shock (just giggling 'cos the spellchecker insisted on making that 'intergalactic shock ) but fortunately he came through it...close though!

It seems sensible that we ought to be able to have some basic stuff like this....sneaking around the issue by carrying a course of penicillin prescribed for someone else isn't really very good but it seems to be the only option at the moment.

 

[jez]

Bill here's the website for a fellow tosser (RDover) http://www.baymed.co.uk/
I seem to recall that He offered us some help for the T.I.T.S trip by way of offroad equipment (a pullpal ground anchor I think)

 

[AdamA]

Adam...I agree, but there's a time factor involved as well so if I could find a suitable ready made kit, the difference in price and time saving may well be worth buying that way- I did find the Stjohnsspplies website earlier and had a look and I'll revisit the idea of making a kit up in a Peli case or similar (Stuff does get knocked about and damp in the Landy a fair bit so that sort of case seems sensible)

Fair play. Just seems an awful lot for what you are getting.
The other option (which they don't state but knowing a couple of people who work for St J's I can see them being happy to help) is give them a call, tell them what it's for, where you are going etc and they should suggest what they think you require, you can then provide your own case for it all (or tell them what size the case is and they will fill it?).
Worth giving them a bell.

As for lead or front bike, we're never far away from eachother (hundreds of metres rather than several KM usually) and are linked by 2 way radios with 14mile ranges, so that's not a major worry- My bike is usually lead and it's just that I have greater carrying capacity.

Just a thought in case you get spread out more.

 

[Loiq]

kendrick sticks or slishman equvilant for broken legs very important to aleast straighten the old pins out.

We use the thomas bag it's a back pack based system full of luvverly stuff and drugs

couple of bags of fluids and various needles for collapsed lung and a carry stretcher plus small bottle of O2

 

[Jaq]

Bill, dear one......if you can't get hold of any epipens or similar, then buy some anti histamine such as piriton...you can buy that over the counter in Boots / Superdrug etc....obviously not as good as the pens, but far better that nowt....

Oh, and just in case I get dragged (!) to the pub tonight by my beloved and beer poured down my throat, which renders me very forgetful........




HAPPY BIRTHDAY FOR TOMORROW...........

 

[Fanum]

Thank you my little sand goddess

Piriton...doesn't work for Mike

TBH the chances of having that happen again are remote, and hopefully anyone who does suffer that sort of reaction will already know about it and carry their own Epnephrine....Mike didn't know (although he knew he had bad swellings to other bites previously, as a lot of us do) so it was a bit of a shock!

It was a rather scary event for both of us, but particularly him

 

[Decster]

dont forget those plasters with the cartoon characters, i always liked those for little papers cuts........

 

[Fanum]

dont forget those plasters with the cartoon characters, i always liked those for little papers cuts........

Guaranteed to make a rufty tufty GSer feel better

 

[Fruitcake]

containers and blethers

I used to use BDH containers for first aid and repair kits when travelling in remote areas - waterproof and take a fair beating. They come in various sizes so's you can spread stuff round the group - perhaps by different levels of emergency - ie comfort pack - sun screen, rehydration stuff, immodium, plasters, creams, basic drugs, dental stuff and then keep a hardcore pack for accidents - keep a sleeping bag / tent handy to use for shock / group shelter type thing / keep the sun off any casualties if needed, too (I used to use a bivvy bag as a pack liner so's it could double up as a survival bag if needed) - some group shelters also have handles to double up as stretchers. I'm sure if you approach your GP they might give you stronger antibiotics etc - mine gave me stuff before I went to Chile to go mountaineering but that was over 10 years ago. Super glue is apparently also good for cuts. Oh - and throw in a few tampons / towels and condoms for added measure - VG wound dressings.

My experience is either from canoeing or mountaineering in remote places so not much good re bike stuff but for both of those we used to always carry some rope, krabs, pulley, slings etc which were always v useful for getting people / kit out of awkward places if things went a bit pete tong.

How about contacting one of the national outdoor centres eg Plas y Brenin or Glenmore Lodge for advice - these guys run group trips all over the world and have loads of personal expedition experience.

Apologies if I'm repeating stuff you already know. Enjoy your trip!

 

[Fanum]

I used to use BDH containers for first aid and repair kits when travelling in remote areas - waterproof and take a fair beating. They come in various sizes so's you can spread stuff round the group - perhaps by different levels of emergency - ie comfort pack - sun screen, rehydration stuff, immodium, plasters, creams, basic drugs, dental stuff and then keep a hardcore pack for accidents - keep a sleeping bag / tent handy to use for shock / group shelter type thing / keep the sun off any casualties if needed, too (I used to use a bivvy bag as a pack liner so's it could double up as a survival bag if needed) - some group shelters also have handles to double up as stretchers. I'm sure if you approach your GP they might give you stronger antibiotics etc - mine gave me stuff before I went to Chile to go mountaineering but that was over 10 years ago. Super glue is apparently also good for cuts. Oh - and throw in a few tampons / towels and condoms for added measure - VG wound dressings.

My experience is either from canoeing or mountaineering in remote places so not much good re bike stuff but for both of those we used to always carry some rope, krabs, pulley, slings etc which were always v useful for getting people / kit out of awkward places if things went a bit pete tong.

How about contacting one of the national outdoor centres eg Plas y Brenin or Glenmore Lodge for advice - these guys run group trips all over the world and have loads of personal expedition experience.

Apologies if I'm repeating stuff you already know. Enjoy your trip!

Thanks Fruitcake...these are ongoing trips, Six a year, so it is important.

We do carry sanitary towels and tampons, but mainly (up until now) because we have Lady riders and pillions with us and travel can upset cycles- potentially rather awkward out in remote places

After having a guy conk out on a trip earlier this year through dehydration (first day out so we weren't expecting it!) I do also have a lightweight tarp on my bike for emergency shelter

I'll speak to those centres, thanks....and I'm booking up with our local Doc to talk to them about getting some drugs 'in case' as well.

Thanks for your input

 

[Tim Cullis]

I agree with AdamA's comments about the £100 case. Boots used to do a pretty good basic kit with sterile field, sutures, syringes and needles, etc. which you can stick in your own case.

My kit is divided into two
- accident kit is always on the bike even if the luggage has been dumped elsewhere
- sickness kit is with my overnight stuff.

ACCIDENT KIT
sterile field, gloves, scalpel
scissors, tweezers
antiseptic wipes
TCP antisetic liquid
duct tape (for closing big wounds)
cohesive support bandages (multiple uses)
various dressings from 9x25 to 8x6
variety of fabric plasters
micropore tape
thermal survival blanket
Co-codamol (30mg codine with 500mg Paracetamol)
Optrex eye drops
Ventolin inhaler
Antihistamine
sunblock (Pampers 100% sunblock wipes for children, non eye stinging)
wet wipes (loo)
cigarette lighter (firelighting)

I also have some really huge 'cable' ties strapped to the bike frame that could be used to secure a splint (or hold on a pannier). A neck collar could be fabricated using a rolled up newspaper (or similar).

SICKNESS KIT
thermometers
syringes/needles/suture kit
Huber needle
Imodium (diarrhoea)
rehydration sachets
Ciprofloxacin antibiotic (travellers' diarrhoea)
Metronidazole antibiotic (amoebic dysentery and giardia)
Amoxicillin antibiotic (moderate spectrum)
witch hazel (bite/sting)
Lanacane anesthetic cream
Co-codamol (codine/paracetamol)
Paracetamol
Asprin
Ibuprofen
Voltarol cream (anti-inflamatory and for muscule strains)
Sudafed
DayNurse
Lidocaine-based throat pastilles (severe coughs)
Optrex eye bath

Each of the medicines is packed in a 'ziplock' plastic bag (so save space) together with a printout from NetDoctor that amongst other things lists the doses and contraindications.

Our family doctor was a volunteer in Peru ain his youth and knew what it was like to be miles from assistance, so he was extremely helpful with advice and prescriptions. My mate Steve is a drug dealer (healthcare) so we got a lot of help there.

These are my lists for my use, you obviously need to consider other people's potential needs. Also checkout http://www.travelafricamag.com/content/view/813/81/

Tim