Germany, Poland etc...Summer 2008

Vendome 41

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Going next year to celebrate my 50th do a grand SOLO tour of Europe, must include for the moment :
Weimar (Buchenwald)
Berlin
Szczecin (Friend)
Munich (Dachau)
Oswiecim (Auschwitz)
Vienna
Mauthausen
Berchtesgaen (eagle's nest)

Any do and don't do and recommandations of places to stay
 
Wow, that looks like being a right fun filled trip :(

I'd give Berlin and Vienna a miss, They are both very lively vibrant places.
 
Wow, that looks like being a right fun filled trip :(

I'd give Berlin and Vienna a miss, They are both very lively vibrant places.

The other reason for the trip is that my late grandfather served in the french resistance whike working om the railways and manage to survive the nazi regime
 
Can't help but notice you've got a bit of a fixation with concentration camps. If the experience of visiting one is new to you, you might change your mind about wanting to visit more in such a short space of time. Just my tuppence worth!

If you visit Buchenwald, a visit to Weimar is very worthwhile. If you're travelling from Buchenwald to Berlin, based on your suggested itinerary, you might want to do a small detour and visit Colditz. This has an entirely different atmosphere to the concentration camps and is actually rather pleasant, probably due to its very different history and usage.
 
similar theme

done similar stuff, also worth a visit

underground V2 factory at Nordhausen
Colditz
Speer's 'parade ground' at Nurnburg (now a car park)
Castle at Wewelsburg (spelling ish) - Himmler's SS spiritula centre, you can view the crypt and 'temple' through gates
Did Wolf's Lair last year but it's a long way through truck infested Poland
South from Oswiecim to Zakopane/Slovakia is good - LWR Church of Bones (Kutna Hora)
way there way back - take a look at Verdun

and, and, and

How much time have you got?
 
I've visited Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz and Colditz (not all in the one trip) and agree with the previous comments. They're important 'must do's', but perhaps only the once. Colditz is great. The prisoners were a bright lot, not really mistreated by the standards of the day, and if you weren't planning the Christmas Concert you worked on the glider on the roof!
 
I have just got back from Berlin (not on the bike) and it is a great city! The Park Inn Berlin in Alexanderplatz is a great location, nice hotel and good price - but not sure about secure parking. Do the tourist bus tour from Alexanderplatz 2 hours/ 15 Euro and very intersting. Potsdam (not Potsdampaltz) is very nice with lots of great architecture and an amazing castle with gardens - about 30-45 mins outside Berlin centre.

Have fun!
 
The other reason for the trip is that my late grandfather served in the french resistance whike working om the railways and manage to survive the nazi regime

Great respect. Did your grandfather come from Vendome ?

Your trip plan looks very black. Why the need to visit so many awfull places in one trip ?

I have spent a lot of time in the Munich, Augsberg, Dachau area. McDonnalds in Dachau was a regular meeting place for ride outs and once we English and German friends did the tour. We went, saw, and cried together. It was not of our making nor that of our generation. The memory must be retained but lets move on. Its a very boring featureless area anyway, not GS country.

As your grandfather was French why not visit the Struthof camp at Natzwiller or the museum in Die in the Vercors and enjoy some proper roads and scenery with good food and wine whenever you stop.
 
My suggestions:

POLAND
Stutthof Concentration Camp
Wolfs Lair - there's a smart former Palace now a hotel within 10 minutes of it
Auschwitz & Birkenau (you'd be surprised how many go to 1 but not the other)
Wielitchka Salt Mines - just outside Krakov
Zagan - site of the famous POW camp

GERMANY
Berlin is crawling with sites inc The Reich Stadion (Olympic stadium) & the adjoining Maifield
The German - Russian museum (where Germany surrendered)
The Reichstag
Brandenburg Gate
The Deutcher Widerstand museum -
Wannsee Conference House
Belsen
Mittelbau Dora (underground rocket factory) outside Nordhausen
Mohne Dam
Colditz.
The Airbourne musuem in Arnhem, Arnhem bridge, Urqharts house etc. I know they're in Holland but only about an hour from the German border.

Even if you are really OTT about WWII history you can over-do the sites (take my word for it :o ) so its probably best to allow some time out for something different, eg the Hein Gerricke shop in Berlin etc. Apart from the hotel near the Wolfs Lair, personally I wouldn't book hotels in advance - just stop where and when you fancy it. If you're really stuffed for positions PM me & I can e-mail you a Mapsource Files. :thumb2
 
Rode to Oswiecim last year after my daughter, who had been previously, had said everyone must go and see that place. Had to leave after less than an hour, too upsetting. As above - be sure you know what you are in for.

The day I went it was full of school party day trips larking about which made it worse somehow ..................
 
I agree with the general concensus of opinion here (for once) that you may be overdoing the grim . Perhaps you should research your grandfathers activities a little and visit places with a more personal connection? I have visited Dachau twice, once 30 years ago which left a vivid and lasting impression and once a couple of years ago with my teenage boys who completely missed the point. The place has been subtly sanitised and in my oppinion is not worth visiting any longer. The east europeans have no such sensibilities about the past and the true horror of it is there to see as a warning for all.
 
Thierry,

I have a similar rough out-line.

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I don't see any problems with your itinerary at all.

Unless I missed it, you don't mention whether you are camping or using hotels?

Having been to the Adlerhoff in my youth, I'd not bother again. Historically it's not terribly interesting, Hitler only went once (he didn't like the lift because of his claustrophobia and never went back after the opening.

You cannot get to the lift access except by coach, you have to park and use the buses.

Many people have gone there thinking that it was the site of the Berghoff (long since destroyed).

My rough out-line is:

Plymouth-Roscoff, over to the Vosges (maybe re-visit Nazwiller-Struthoff) taking-in the SOE memorial at Valencay en route.

Mulhouse and the Schlumpf museum.

Munchen and BMW Mobile Tradition.

Dachau.

Brannau Am-Inn (the monsters birth place is still there).

Mauthausen.

On via Budapest, north through Slovakia into Poland where I want to find Sobibor and Treblinka (I have toyed with the idea of Birkenau but might take that on the fly).

On to Berlin, north to Ravensbruck and then on to the Kreigsmarine museum near Flensburg.

Back south and cross into Holland towards Mons via Arnhem and Nijmegen. Then back to Arras (visit great-uncle Percy's grave) before heading for Dieppe, on to Roscoff via Normandy and buy a Roscoff-Plymouth crossing when I get there.

I will be doing a lot more sight-seeing along the way so the doom and gloom aspects are there to fulfil my attempt to understand certain aspects of human nature a bit better.

I'm hoping that mid-June will be my starting point but the whole thing may have to be put off as I'm planning on selling my place and finding another (something I've thought about for a couple of years but this year the sale will take precedence over the travel).

I have a fairly extensive list of websites that are good sources for research, email me if you want them.
 
My suggestions:

POLAND
Stutthof Concentration Camp
Wolfs Lair - there's a smart former Palace now a hotel within 10 minutes of it
Auschwitz & Birkenau (you'd be surprised how many go to 1 but not the other)
Wielitchka Salt Mines - just outside Krakov
Zagan - site of the famous POW camp

You could add to this list Treblinka (about 50 miles NE of Warsaw). There's not too much to see but a huge midge population. But, somehow, the linger of death is just as strong as at Auschwitz/Birkenau.

Greg

PS Colditz is a 'must'!

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Mike, not being a sponsor at the moment because of paypal problems can you text me your number for me to give you a call on 07967 298917
 
safe in poland

thinking of taking my gs and wife to poland to see the concentration mentioned in this thread ,was thinking of camping but have heard its not safe to leave tent or bike unattened can any one help put my mind at rest
 


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