Help/Advice wanted - self starting 1150GSA

[TangibleSolid]

I would appreciate any help/advice about this... I have an '02 1150GSA with 21000mls which has been fine until a few days ago.

I was in stationary traffic, engine running at tickover, when the starter motor just kicked into life on its own. At the time I didn't even have my hands on the bars... most disconcerting, so I killed the engine and pulled over, when i reset the kill switch the starter motor kicked in again. I managed to get home by pulling out the starter relay (after starting the engine) when I got home i replaced the relay but it didn't self start.

I assumed it was the handlebar switch so I've stripped and cleaned the switch (as far as possible) and although it was a little sticky I couldn't see/feel any obvoius issues and when reassembled, it seemed to be working fine.

Anyway it has happened again today and now I don't know where to start. I think the switch is working ok i.e. not sticking and working when pressed, and i've waggled the wiring about to see if that was at fault but it doesn't seem to be. (waggling in all directions does not make the starter kick in)

I wondered if it could be the relay or even the starter solonoid/motor but I don't know if this is possible or how to check these items

A new RH switch unit is DAFT money (over £200) so I don't want to buy one and find it doesn't help

Can anyone offer any ideas....?

Thanks

 

[Balders1450]

In France a few years ago, we stopped in the middle of nowhere, looked at the trip, it was 666. My mate got off his bike to have a smoke, walked over to me and it started all by itself!

Never did it again....."tales of the unexpected"

Demonic possession or "I Bought A Vampire Motorcycle"

 

[roddy]

I'd start with replacing the starter relay, not expensive, and give the starter a good clean so when it's out on the bench you can have a good look for any faults.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Did you do your resistance measurements?

You need to do this to the electrical components you're working on because even I can't see electrons or emf's around a conductor and that's the only way you'll know whether your RH switch assy is responsible for your problem.

Your starter solenoid should also be resistance checked but I reckon that'll be fine: If you've got the starter motor on the bench then wire it up to a spare battery, clamp it down, and give it a smack with small rubber hammer and see if it reacts.

 

[TangibleSolid]

Thanks for the replies
I have a digi-multimeter, can you tell me how to check the switch. I assumed that checking for continuity across the switch when activated (and obviously lack of continuity when not) would suggest that the switch was 'switching'.

Is there a way to check the relay with a meter?

What should I be looking for when checking the starter motor? and could a faulty starter cause the problems I'm having.
Again I was working on the assumption that the starter works when it gets power and doesn't when it ...doesn't. The starter is working at present when the button is pressed but obviously is also occasionally working when the button is not touched!

Can the starter get power from somewhere else ie not through the switch and/or relay? (dodgy connection/earth?) or could the button or relay be supplying the starter with power without 'human intervention '

Sorry to be a numpty but electrics are a bit of a black art to me

once again, thanks for the support

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

You're Right...

...about the starter button.

1) I'd disconnect the battery (IT'S IMPORTANT YOU DON'T TRY MEASURING RESISTANCE WITH POWER CONNECTED or do three below).
2) Find the connector that the RH switch assy connects into the main looms.
3) Disconnect that and set your meter to Ohms (perhaps 20 ohm setting if it has one), now probe into sockets 3 & 5 according to Haynes (my bike's not here because it's being serviced and can't check this).
4) Push the button and see if the switch closes to about 0.2 ohms or so.
5) Release the button and your meter should read infinity i.e. no connection.
6) Then try waggling the button and see if it closes on its' own by noticing your meter reacting

If it activates when your bike's vibrating, as they do, it might been creating momentary contacts in your starter button.

Now, to check the relay you will need to power it up and measure the voltage on its' output terminal and will require a separate power supply (12v battery) and a bit of wiring, and to DO THIS ON THE BENCH, unless you can access the connector easily and simply measure what comes out of pin 2, it should be 12v.

I don't reckon your starter motor is faulty. It could be receiving an internal short but without stripping it down and looking to see if any metal is floating around the starter solenoid, your probably okay.

I do think it's an actuation fault, i.e. by some mechanism you starter button is self actuating or your starter relay is self closing (there's a little switch in there that's usually closed by a coil & magnet being charged and pulling to switch over through a magnetic field). Alternatively, there is a short between pins 2 & 6 of your starter relay connector or wiring loom.

It's quite a bit of work this and following a top down approach should find the answere but it's will take time.

Get yourself a Haynes manual a follow their fault finding tips. I use to learn my way around a relatively new bike to me but, I am trained in dealing with most things electric.

Try me again with any other questions you may have.

 

[Wrigsby1]

I'd check the switch for sticking but I would bet it's the starter solenoid. I had the same thing with my K11 a bit ago and resorted to giving it a sharp hit to release it.

2nd hand from the usual suspects...

 

[TangibleSolid]

Just to give you an update, I have done all the checks suggested by DitchWater, (appreciate it, many thanks) the switch is working exactly as it should and I could not get it to 'misbehave' by bend/twisting wires, shaking etc.

Next I tested the relay as suggested and that is also working exactly as it should (according to the meter, continuity with 12v power - total resistance without)

Last of all I removed the starter and stripped it down as far as i could. the solonoid unit seems to be sealed and I could not work out how to get into it, but I did get into the motor and there wasn't any obvious problems so I put it all back together and refitted it.

I don't know if the problem is cured but the bike started and ran quite happily although I havn't taken it out on the road.

Having said that, the bike started before and the problem didn't manifest itself until the bike had been running for a while and was up to temp.
I need to get the bike on the road and see if the problem persists but I'm wary of the starter coming in half way round a roundabout etc with severe consequences for your truly!!

Anyone with any further thoughts? the only bit I haven't/couldn't definatively test is the solonoid, could this be the fault (shorting out?)?

I don't think the solonoid is sticking as has been suggested because the bike starts and run normally but then the starter motor 'kicks' in again periodically (without touching the button)
Cheers

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

See your latest PM mate.

I'm going with the short circuit in the solenoid theorum.

Good Luck.

 

[Wrigsby1]

My K11 was intermittent. Until I found a replacement relay i kept the screwdriver handy

Relays stick "on" and then can release quite easily and not stick again for a while so don't be dissappointed if it returns...

 

[KMD]

I had this with a K1100LT and it was the relay.

 

[Colban]

Have you tried....
To eliminate most of the starting circuit;remove the starter motor cover,then after starting the bike,pull off the spade connector going to the starter solenoid and then see it it tries to start on a ride out.