Insurance declined, you gotta be kidding?

[GSite]

Hi All,
Just to add to the merryment of insurance renewal, the following.

Two multi-bike polices with a well know broker, several bikes with a complex mix of modifications and accessories, no problem, happy with policy, broker etc. Little Enfield Himalayan policy due with another insurer and thought I may take that over to the same company as the multi-bike polices but set up a new policy for it with the aim of adding others to it during the year so it also becomes multi-bike. Declared a few accessories - hugger, top box, crash bars, heated grips, price ok so let's go for it. Phone to take this up but asked about adding handguards to the list, err no, the underwriter declines cover eh what ? Yep, some £6 plastic bits to keep the wind chill off my digits stops me getting cover. Remove them and all OK.

All I could think of is the number of so called modifications exceeds four, so I ask the broker if the guards stay and one of the other accessories goes therefore keeping the number to four, but again declined so broker assumes it is actually tha hand guards which are the problem.

Sadly there is not the option to speak to a human in the underwriting team to apply some common sense as it is driven by algorithms and automated decision making, so in effect the computer says no !

As a twist, two years ago the Himmie was on one of the multi-bike polices will all the accessoires above with no problem.
We shall see if there is a challenge come multi-bike renewal in March given the curremt mix of mods and accessories. Me thinks a wholesale change may be required.

Easiest solution is to just remove the hand guards (some may say don't declare them) but just making a point, I am not so petty as to cut my nose off to spite my face.

Oh well, at least I can prepare for what may be on the way rather than it being a shock in the spring.

 

[er-minio]

asked about adding handguards to the list

Respectfully: why would you ask to add handguards?
If they get ruined, replace out of your own pocket (6 quid), done.

 

[GSite]

Respectfully: why would you ask to add handguards?
If they get ruined, replace out of your own pocket (6 quid), done.

Simples, in the event of an accident the insurance assessor can and probably would see that they were not declared and the underwriter is within their rights not to pay out for ANY damage, not just hand guards.

Of course I would just sort the guards myself, not worth cliaming for £6.

You have an obligation to declare all accssories to uphold your part of the insurance contract, believe me I have seen this go wrong for a couple of guys who did not declare.

 

[Northern jock]

Simples, in the event of an accident the insurance assessor can and probably would see that they were not declared and the underwriter is within their rights not to pay out for ANY damage, not just hand guards.

Of course I would just sort the guards myself, not worth cliaming for £6.

You have an obligation to declare all accssories to uphold your part of the insurance contract, believe me I have seen this go wrong for a couple of guys who did not declare.

There’s a list of things you can do to your bike that you don’t need to declare, including things like luggage, if you can find that list on the quotation site hand guards might be on it?

Edit - or find a company you can speak to

 

[EPG_19]

Simples, in the event of an accident the insurance assessor can and probably would see that they were not declared and the underwriter is within their rights not to pay out for ANY damage, not just hand guards.

thats just not true.

 

[GSite]

thats just not true.

Really, all I can say is that a mate fell foul of this ! Perhaps you could enlighten me please, which part do you feel is not true ?
Could it be just scare mongery on the part of the underwriters or them doing the dirty when thay say failure to decalre all accessories my result in no damage cover ? If I have clear evidence it may give me grounds to challenge if it required.

In my case when quotation was sought the underwriter clearly said they would decline to cover the bike with hand guards, so if I have them despite declaring that I don't, am I then breaking the insurance contract ?

 

[EPG_19]

Really, all I can say is that a mate fell foul of this ! Perhaps you could enlighten me please, which part do you feel is not true ?
Could it be just scare mongery on the part of the underwriters or them doing the dirty when thay say failure to decalre all accessories my result in no damage cover ? If I have clear evidence it may give me grounds to challenge if it required.

In my case when quotation was sought the underwriter clearly said they would decline to cover the bike with hand guards, so if I have them despite declaring that I don't, am I then breaking the insurance contract ?

your 'friend' had a full insurance claim declined because of hand guards? what a load of shite.

 

[er-minio]

Simples, in the event of an accident the insurance assessor can and probably would see that they were not declared and the underwriter is within their rights not to pay out for ANY damage, not just hand guards.

I honestly do not think that is the case.

One thing is adding a turbo or other substantial modifications (and illegal ones) to a vehicle. One thing is to add small, permitted, items. I see a lot of people here fretting for a GPS mount or a sticker.
That is – and should not – be the case.

Of course I would not try to claim small extras not insured with the bike.

I'd have a look at the small print on the policy. Only that will tell.
One thing is being honest and forthcoming with the insurance.
Another thing is being taken for a ride.

 

[GSite]

your 'friend' had a full insurance claim declined because of hand guards? what a load of shite.

Yeah, his is truely hacked off, but several months on is trying to go down the legal route as he feels something is not right, but as yet the solicitors have not formally confirmed their view on the situation or even if there is a case to answer.

 

[wessie]

I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that an insurer would need to evidence that a modification was a contributory factor to an incident resulting in a claim. For example, the hand guards interfered with the controls.
Any contract, insurance or otherwise, has to be reasonable so if a mod is inconsequential, it would be fairly easy to challenge this with a simple complaint, escalated to the ombudsman if needed.
Of course, if one had fitted different brake calipers or enhanced the engine power then this could be deemed significant enough to nullify a claim. It's all about context. I never declared the hand guards I fitted to my R1200RS.

 

[er-minio]

As usual, another insurer might probably be less strict (and maybe a tad more expensive). I’d have a look around.

Good luck!

 

[GSite]

As usual, another insurer might probably be less strict (and maybe a tad more expensive). I’d have a look around.

Good luck!

Agreed, told them to do one on principle and going elsewhere, lost trust and faith in that inderwriter, not putting up with that shit.
May well junk them when the multi-bike polices are due for renewal, will research other options in the month before, known as the renewal period.

 

[Santa-2512]

I think the whole insurance market needs to be given a big whack with a proper review, and the balance of the system falling in the consumer / proposers favour , rather than the provider!

It should be,

The proposer makes the request for insurance , (with some basic caveats)

Your driving history/ no claims / details are confirmed

Vehicle is insured based on a std vehicle from the factory - anything above / changed / added / removed from the factory spec is not covered unless declared.. ( so don't declare the hand guards, and there not covered)

The insurer then makes the decision to insure - once the decision to insure is mutually agreed & the payments made, the insurer has accepted the risk

There is no wiggle / smallprint/ we dont like / erroneous clauses used to not pay out / cost down / cheaper parts/ decline etc based on the wrong lock / location time of day etc - you are insured - the insurer has accepted the risk

 

[Robbi]

I remember years ago with my first Blackbird I declared that I had fitted a rack, the insurance bod said that if the mod didn't affect the performance they weren't interested.
Don't now if that would be the case today.

 

[er-minio]

I think the whole insurance market needs to be given a big whack with a proper review, and the balance of the system falling in the consumer / proposers favour , rather than the provider!

It should be,

They should.
It would push the prices up. I wouldn't mind to be fair.

I keep a vehicle (car) insured abroad and, while not perfect, I assure you the process is way less bullshit prone than here. Vehicle/city/proposer + history.
Mind you they insure the vehicle, not the driver.

None of this "uninsurable" vehicles (Range Rovers, GSs) faff that happens in the UK.
I think Wessie pointed out the European insurance system works within a mutual system.



Granted it was quite a few years ago…
back home I had a crash that totalled my R1150R. Not my fault.

Bike had (legal) Remus can, Ohlins front and back + a few small extras (bagster, Rockster lower handlebars, etc.)

The mechanic inspected the bike.
The insurance bod inspected the bike.

They gave me the commercial value of the bike at the time + personal damage.
Ohlins and all the extras were never included in any compensation calculation as it should have been and as I expected it to be.
All peachy.

I grew up with the assumption that anything I stick myself on my bike is never included in any insurance cover, stolen or broken.
I think most people think the exact opposite, hence the complication.

For standard covers: maybe just give me the option to opt out of that. Simples.
Anything else – if you want – specialised insurance with agreed values and such.

Again, I suspect this might be the case with some underwriters. But not always clear at sign-up times.

 

[Monsieur]

Won’t you now have to declare that you were declined insurance each time you request a new quote?
Insurance is naughty game where insurers try their very best to get out of paying and I’ll bet your declined quote will now be on the system somewhere.

Then again I know nothing about insurance other than filling in forms and paying a hefty premium.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

S

I remember years ago with my first Blackbird I declared that I had fitted a rack, the insurance bod said that if the mod didn't affect the performance they weren't interested.
Don't now if that would be the case today.

Same with my insurers this year
Declared the …..
Ohlins suspension
Sargent seat
Luggage
Baglux tank cover
Remus silencer
MRA screen
Crashbars
Alloy bash plate

Not interested in a premium increase and just added it to the list of accessories fitted

 

[wessie]

Won’t you now have to declare that you were declined insurance each time you request a new quote?
Insurance is naughty game where insurers try their very best to get out of paying and I’ll bet your declined quote will now be on the system somewhere.

Then again I know nothing about insurance other than filling in forms and paying a hefty premium.

there's a big difference between, "we will not offer a quote for this vehicle" and "we will not cover you as an individual"

note the question on a proposal form is "have *you* been declined insurance" and not "have you asked for a quote on an uninsurable pile of shit"

 

[EPG_19]

there's a big difference between, "we will not offer a quote for this vehicle" and "we will not cover you as an individual"

note the question on a proposal form is "have *you* been declined insurance" and not "have you asked for a quote on an uninsurable pile of shit"

correct and lots of case law on the onus being on the companies to ask the correct questions