Ligurian Alps and the LGKS

Grazoid

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Anyone got any info on the Ligurische Grenzkammstrasse and any other good routes in the Ligurian Alps ?

Planning next years trip and would love to do the LGKS. Most of the info seems to be on German sites and taks a a bit of wading through the details after the "Google bot" has been mangling it. :D
 
Not mentioned on the Alpine roads site as they dismiss Italy as not worth the bother.

And the Pass bashers bible has never mentioned it in the two editions I have :) The closest it gets is Col de Tende.

It's an ex-military road 60KMS of it on the Italian side of the border. It is in Denzel, and hence mentioned on loads of German sites, but as I do not do German too well I was hoping someone on here had ridden it.

Loads of stuff on Youtube like this makes me want to check it out

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ovhv1J28Y3w&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ovhv1J28Y3w&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
 
Not mentioned on the Alpine roads site as they dismiss Italy as not worth the bother.

And the Pass bashers bible has never mentioned it in the two editions I have :) The closest it gets is Col de Tende.

It's an ex-military road 60KMS of it on the Italian side of the border. It is in Denzel, and hence mentioned on loads of German sites, but as I do not do German too well I was hoping someone on here had ridden it.

Loads of stuff on Youtube like this makes me want to check it out

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ovhv1J28Y3w&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ovhv1J28Y3w&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Cool!
That looks excellent.Must find that on the map!
 
I've done both the famous and somtimes difficult eastern section from Col de Tende, over Passo di Tanarelo and Col Linaire, going down through La Brigue, and I've also doen the less famous western section, riding up from Tende over Baisse d'Ourne and Baisse Peyrefique towards the Fort Central on Col de Tende.

I reccomend riding up using the western section, this is the easier part. If you're reaching your limits on this bit, you know you shouldn't attempt the much harder eastern section.

Camping is often done in the courtyard of Fort Central, but beware, there are wolves at night, and I'm not joking :eek
I had planned to sepnd the night in the Fort, but as I was alone, I didn't do it. Only camp there if you can build an campfire, and if you have company.

Haven't doen any filming on the eastern section, the western section though is covered in this film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_z1x0g9vVU

Any more questions, just shout ;)

Grtz, Philip!
 
Any more questions, just shout ;)

There seems to be hundreds of km of gravel roads in the area, and looking at the Denzel scale*, some sound quite difficult, 3-4 and 4, or even 5!!!:eek:
I guess finding a campsite is favourite, Camping Municipal St Jacques for example, then ride out each day without luggage on the bikes.
This could be a very interesting ride....:thumb

* The Denzel scale, degrees of difficulty:-

Translated by Google.


Difficulty

The levels of difficulty (SG) refers to the famous alpine roads Denzel scale.
SG Information on points related to the difficult places of the most frequently used driving. The classification depends on the maximum difficulty occurring, it is no average formed. Thus, when a track on which a frame (not too short) section 4 SG, SG 2 but otherwise, it is classified as SG 4 typically. This is to avoid nasty surprises halfway, but also that some of the routes specified SG is higher than the "perceived" leads.
Since the Denzel-scale focused mainly on two-lane vehicles, here the importance of difficulty in keywords and comments for motorcyclists:

SG 1 - Very easy route
• Road: normal thickness (> = 6 m)
• Decking / state: continuous smooth asphalt or concrete
• Border security: present throughout
• Routing: no strongly curved corners, no or very few, widely diversified Return
• slopes: max. 9%
• Requirements: for beginners
• Motorcycle classes: suitable for all machine

SG 2 - distance without significant requirements
• Road: two lanes
• Decking / Condition: mostly asphalt, possibly worse condition
• Border security: for the most part available
• Route: developed sufficiently wide sweeping with little slope in the inserts
• Rise: Max. 15%
• Requirements: Average, suitable for beginners with driving experience
• Motorcycle classes: suitable for all machine

SG 3 - route requires driving experience in the mountains
• Road: mostly two-lane, single lane with passing places in sections
• Coating: partially or completely missing asphalt or poor condition
• Border security: missing to a large extent
• Route: many, strongly curved bends, tight corners with greater slope
• Rise: over longer distances more than 15%
• Requirements: driving practice required on mountain roads
• Motorcycle classes and touring bikes, sports limited

SG 4 - Difficult and sometimes dangerous route, requires above average driving skills
• Road: mostly single track, a few passing places
• Decking / Condition: inhomogeneous, hardly entertained, sometimes coarse gravel, heavily washed or driven roadway may have Side slope is slippery when wet (mud, grass, loamy subsoil), has any bottlenecks by landslide and / or impassable on fords
• Edge protection: up to a few dangerous places no edge protection
• Route: very narrow, not sweeping developed
• Slope: Slopes above 20% or 15% at altitudes above 2000 m
• Requirements: above-average driving skills required!
• Motorcycle Classes: enduro, touring restricted. Possibly. sufficient ground clearance needed tires with a rough profile of advantage

SG 5 - Extremely difficult and dangerous route, driving at your own risk and never alone!
• Road: hardly any, on the border area
• Decking / state: on the edge of decay, rough gravel, bare rock, sand, mud, dangerous narrow, high rockfall, severe erosion, land-slide and side slope; fords that can not be passable at times.
• Border security: no
• Route: not always visible, no or very dilapidated expansion
• Rise: extreme inclines, switchbacks and even in altitudes above 2000 m
• Requirements: terrain reserved for professionals with appropriate machines!
• Motorcycle Classes: only light enduro / motocross machines, with strong restrictions may also touring bikes. Long-travel suspension, high ground clearance and track custom tires required!
 
This is the route of the easier western track, which I've filmed.

<iframe width="800" height="400" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.be/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Tende,+Frankrijk&daddr=44.0880256,7.5368164+to:Onbekende+weg&geocode=FQm_oAId7t1zAClbm-k6QZzNEjHAlZf9pRkIBA%3BFdm6oAIdsABzACl9MN4EFJzNEjEgSGzKjxXOzA%3BFWeroQIdXWJzAA&aq=0&oq=saorge&sll=44.095044,7.5525&sspn=0.044876,0.076818&hl=nl&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1&ie=UTF8&t=m&ll=44.094983,7.552586&spn=0.049314,0.137157&z=13&output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.be/maps?f=d&source=embed&saddr=Tende,+Frankrijk&daddr=44.0880256,7.5368164+to:Onbekende+weg&geocode=FQm_oAId7t1zAClbm-k6QZzNEjHAlZf9pRkIBA%3BFdm6oAIdsABzACl9MN4EFJzNEjEgSGzKjxXOzA%3BFWeroQIdXWJzAA&aq=0&oq=saorge&sll=44.095044,7.5525&sspn=0.044876,0.076818&hl=nl&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1&ie=UTF8&t=m&ll=44.094983,7.552586&spn=0.049314,0.137157&z=13" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">Grotere kaart weergeven</a></small>

The harder, in a few places really difficult eastern track doesn't show on Google Maps, they don't know there are roads (or tracks) upthere :blast

A test to see if you can handle short turns could be done as followed. Once reaching the Col de Tende from the western track, ride down the Col de Tende using the Italian asphalt side of the mountain. Go back through the tunnel towards France, and take straight ahead at the first switchback. That's the partly unpaved track going up the Col de Tende, it has around 40 tight hairpins. Once again, if you feel you're reached your limits in this bit, don't do the eastern track. Harald Denzel is right, it is SG5 :D

Grtz, Philip!
 
There seems to be hundreds of km of gravel roads in the area, and looking at the Denzel scale*, some sound quite difficult, 3-4 and 4, or even 5!!!:eek:
I guess finding a campsite is favourite, Camping Municipal St Jacques for example, then ride out each day without luggage on the bikes.
This could be a very interesting ride....:thumb

* The Denzel scale, degrees of difficulty:-

Translated by Google.


Difficulty

The levels of difficulty (SG) refers to the famous alpine roads Denzel scale.
SG Information on points related to the difficult places of the most frequently used driving. The classification depends on the maximum difficulty occurring, it is no average formed. Thus, when a track on which a frame (not too short) section 4 SG, SG 2 but otherwise, it is classified as SG 4 typically. This is to avoid nasty surprises halfway, but also that some of the routes specified SG is higher than the "perceived" leads.
Since the Denzel-scale focused mainly on two-lane vehicles, here the importance of difficulty in keywords and comments for motorcyclists:

SG 1 - Very easy route
• Road: normal thickness (> = 6 m)
• Decking / state: continuous smooth asphalt or concrete
• Border security: present throughout
• Routing: no strongly curved corners, no or very few, widely diversified Return
• slopes: max. 9%
• Requirements: for beginners
• Motorcycle classes: suitable for all machine

SG 2 - distance without significant requirements
• Road: two lanes
• Decking / Condition: mostly asphalt, possibly worse condition
• Border security: for the most part available
• Route: developed sufficiently wide sweeping with little slope in the inserts
• Rise: Max. 15%
• Requirements: Average, suitable for beginners with driving experience
• Motorcycle classes: suitable for all machine

SG 3 - route requires driving experience in the mountains
• Road: mostly two-lane, single lane with passing places in sections
• Coating: partially or completely missing asphalt or poor condition
• Border security: missing to a large extent
• Route: many, strongly curved bends, tight corners with greater slope
• Rise: over longer distances more than 15%
• Requirements: driving practice required on mountain roads
• Motorcycle classes and touring bikes, sports limited

SG 4 - Difficult and sometimes dangerous route, requires above average driving skills
• Road: mostly single track, a few passing places
• Decking / Condition: inhomogeneous, hardly entertained, sometimes coarse gravel, heavily washed or driven roadway may have Side slope is slippery when wet (mud, grass, loamy subsoil), has any bottlenecks by landslide and / or impassable on fords
• Edge protection: up to a few dangerous places no edge protection
• Route: very narrow, not sweeping developed
• Slope: Slopes above 20% or 15% at altitudes above 2000 m
• Requirements: above-average driving skills required!
• Motorcycle Classes: enduro, touring restricted. Possibly. sufficient ground clearance needed tires with a rough profile of advantage

SG 5 - Extremely difficult and dangerous route, driving at your own risk and never alone!
• Road: hardly any, on the border area
• Decking / state: on the edge of decay, rough gravel, bare rock, sand, mud, dangerous narrow, high rockfall, severe erosion, land-slide and side slope; fords that can not be passable at times.
• Border security: no
• Route: not always visible, no or very dilapidated expansion
• Rise: extreme inclines, switchbacks and even in altitudes above 2000 m
• Requirements: terrain reserved for professionals with appropriate machines!
• Motorcycle Classes: only light enduro / motocross machines, with strong restrictions may also touring bikes. Long-travel suspension, high ground clearance and track custom tires required!

timpo, dont read too much into the difficulty ratings on the denzel guide....

the jafferau and sommeiller are rated as SG4 -but its piss easy to ride up and as we know i am not exactly known as an off road god ! :hide its a walk in the park for you.

We were on the LGKS about 10 days ago - loads of snow and often had to lower bikes down and back up with straps due to rock and snow slides.

a nice ride in bardo is the 3 crosses - it was the hardest route we did in the area.
 
Swissrob, would the LGKS be do-able on a multistrada with tourances on?:nenau I'd be on an 1150 GS and another chap on an 1190 Adventure.
 


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