Medicman is not Horny! Not Horny At All

[MEDICMAN]

Hi Guys,

Further to my previous thread....

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/398496-Medicman-s-on-the-Horn!!!?p=4091739#post4091739

I subsequently bought the Stebel as recommended and as soon as I'd connected it, P A R P !

Then turned the engine on and apart from an initial, half second, Pap! Nothing!

It looks like I'm gonna have to fork out for the relay pack after all.

Unless anyone can advise otherwise???

Cheers,

MM

 

[Norfolk Tiger]

If you need to use the horn pull over turn off the engine and parp away
Relays are nothing to be scared of

 

[MEDICMAN]

If you need to use the horn pull over turn off the engine and parp away

Now why didn't I think of that!

Relays are nothing to be scared of

So long as you know what you're doing.... Which I don't!

Ask me about the electrical conductivity of the heart and I'm your man, but putting in the relay & wiring like that advertised by NN and I'm a total

 

[Fanum]

Now why didn't I think of that!



So long as you know what you're doing.... Which I don't!

Ask me about the electrical conductivity of the heart and I'm your man, but putting in the relay & wiring like that advertised by NN and I'm a total

A relay is just a switch......you turn the switch 'ON' using electricity rather than your finger though.
The electricity to turn it 'ON' comes from the horn button.

Turning it ON makes an electric current come out of the switch.....the reason for doing it though is that the current used to turn the switch ON can be very small, but the current coming out of the relay can be MUCH larger.....In your case, the current going from your horn switch to your horn is not sufficient to power the horn properly before the bike's brain says "Uh-oh, too much power, I'm, cutting this off".

So your switch (the relay) has to have a BIG current supply going in to it, and a place for that big current to go OUT of it to your horn.
When the 'switch' is off, the circuit id not made so nothing happens.....when you send a small amount of current in to it though, the switch is 'flipped' and the big current goes directly to the horn...."PARP"

The small current (the switch current, let's call it a 'feed') has to go somewhere to make a circuit, so in addition to the three connections above ('feed' IN, big current IN and big current OUT) we have to have a fourth connection to let the small current go to the battery earth.

So, in your case, you need a 4 pin relay......two of the connections are for the 'feed' and the other two are for the big current you're going to send to the horn.

Does that make sense?

 

[Beemerman59]

A relay is just a switch......you turn the switch 'ON' using electricity rather than your finger though.
The electricity to turn it 'ON' comes from the horn button.

Turning it ON makes an electric current come out of the switch.....the reason for doing it though is that the current used to turn the switch ON can be very small, but the current coming out of the relay can be MUCH larger.....In your case, the current going from your horn switch to your horn is not sufficient to power the horn properly before the bike's brain says "Uh-oh, too much power, I'm, cutting this off".

So your switch (the relay) has to have a BIG current supply going in to it, and a place for that big current to go OUT of it to your horn.
When the 'switch' is off, the circuit id not made so nothing happens.....when you send a small amount of current in to it though, the switch is 'flipped' and the big current goes directly to the horn...."PARP"

The small current (the switch current, let's call it a 'feed') has to go somewhere to make a circuit, so in addition to the three connections above ('feed' IN, big current IN and big current OUT) we have to have a fourth connection to let the small current go to the battery earth.

So, in your case, you need a 4 pin relay......two of the connections are for the 'feed' and the other two are for the big current you're going to send to the horn.

Does that make sense?

Jackanory is on next children


ps - great write-up

 

[MEDICMAN]

A relay is just a switch......you turn the switch 'ON' using electricity rather than your finger though.
The electricity to turn it 'ON' comes from the horn button.

Turning it ON makes an electric current come out of the switch.....the reason for doing it though is that the current used to turn the switch ON can be very small, but the current coming out of the relay can be MUCH larger.....In your case, the current going from your horn switch to your horn is not sufficient to power the horn properly before the bike's brain says "Uh-oh, too much power, I'm, cutting this off".

So your switch (the relay) has to have a BIG current supply going in to it, and a place for that big current to go OUT of it to your horn.
When the 'switch' is off, the circuit id not made so nothing happens.....when you send a small amount of current in to it though, the switch is 'flipped' and the big current goes directly to the horn...."PARP"

The small current (the switch current, let's call it a 'feed') has to go somewhere to make a circuit, so in addition to the three connections above ('feed' IN, big current IN and big current OUT) we have to have a fourth connection to let the small current go to the battery earth.

So, in your case, you need a 4 pin relay......two of the connections are for the 'feed' and the other two are for the big current you're going to send to the horn.

Does that make sense?

Yep! I get that, thank you. What I don't get (and don"t want to bugger up trying) is the actual wiring.

I have tried something similar (donkeys years ago when bikes were simpler) and that ended in disaster costing money to get fixed!

Having said that, it the same with most DIY Ive tried. Plumbing - Parp! Shelving - parp-parp! Home alarm system - Pap-parrrrp!

 

[Fanum]

Yep! I get that, thank you. What I don't get (and don"t want to bugger up trying) is the actual wiring.

I deliberately didn't post a piccy of the wiring, as I think if you are scared/bothered about relays, it's useful to UNDERSTAND how they work, then once you have that principle, the idea of an input (with an earth to go with it) causing an output, it's then a simple step to match up to a physical relay.

So here we go.....a standard 4 pin relay....

So you take a feed from your current horn wire (there are several ways of actually getting the feed but if you are unsure of electronics and haven't used crimpers etc before, I'd suggest using a positap) and connect that to terminal 86 using a female spade connector that's appropriately rated (to cut it short use a blue one )

Then take a wire from terminal 85 straight back to the battery negative (you'll need another blue female spade connector and then on the other end to the battery, a loop connector, probably a yellow one to get the hole big enough to attach to the negative post bolt)

A wire then comes from the battery POSITIVE, again using a yellow loop connector......although it's not shown on that diagram, you need to put an inline fuse holder in that wire with a 20 amp fuse in it, then connect that to terminal 30

Then finally, a wire from terminal 87 to the positive connector on the horn body.......and a wire from the negative terminal on the horn body to any bolt on the frame of the bike, or back to the battery negative terminal if you want.

To start off with, connect it up with the horn not mounted to the bike and the wiring all loose, test it to make sure it works then you can mount the horn, reconnect the wires and route them neatly, cutting some back to the right length and putting a new crimp on as necessary......then cable tie the wiring in place, make sure your relay is mounted securely and that's it, job done


EDIT....there are actually several different ways to wire the same relay, and if you get one in a kit that has 5 pins, don't worry, you can just ignore the one marked 87a in the centre.

 

[MEDICMAN]

I deliberately didn't post a piccy of the wiring, as I think if you are scared/bothered about relays, it's useful to UNDERSTAND how they work, then once you have that principle, the idea of an input (with an earth to go with it) causing an output, it's then a simple step to match up to a physical relay.

So here we go.....a standard 4 pin relay....

So you take a feed from your current horn wire (there are several ways of actually getting the feed but if you are unsure of electronics and haven't used crimpers etc before, I'd suggest using a positap) and connect that to terminal 86 using a female spade connector that's appropriately rated (to cut it short use a blue one )

Then take a wire from terminal 85 straight back to the battery negative (you'll need another blue female spade connector and then on the other end to the battery, a loop connector, probably a yellow one to get the hole big enough to attach to the negative post bolt)

A wire then comes from the battery POSITIVE, again using a yellow loop connector......although it's not shown on that diagram, you need to put an inline fuse holder in that wire with a 20 amp fuse in it, then connect that to terminal 30

Then finally, a wire from terminal 87 to the positive connector on the horn body.......and a wire from the negative terminal on the horn body to any bolt on the frame of the bike, or back to the battery negative terminal if you want.

To start off with, connect it up with the horn not mounted to the bike and the wiring all loose, test it to make sure it works then you can mount the horn, reconnect the wires and route them neatly, cutting some back to the right length and putting a new crimp on as necessary......then cable tie the wiring in place, make sure your relay is mounted securely and that's it, job done


EDIT....there are actually several different ways to wire the same relay, and if you get one in a kit that has 5 pins, don't worry, you can just ignore the one marked 87a in the centre.

Hmmmmmmmm, Errr [scratches chin] where is it you live exactly?

Thanks Farnum, That really is a great explanation and thank you for taking the time to patiently explain it to a complete numpty head like me. I really do get the idea in theory but I just know what I'm like in practice.

Seriously though, if there's anyone around my neck of the woods who has and can do this and would like a pie n a pint on me, please feel free to give me a call.

 

[Fanum]

Seriously though, if there's anyone around my neck of the woods who has and can do this and would like a pie n a pint on me, please feel free to give me a call.

That's probably a good call for your first go, but make sure they show you how to do it and just guide you.......it will give you SO much confidence and a great sense of accomplishment, plus you will be able to do it again for other little projects like lights, DLRs, intercom powering etc etc.

This is a quick and VERY rough sketch of what I'm building this weekend.......two sets of lights, two LED strips set into the handguards with micro relays from the indicators to make them flash when I indicate (those relays aren't shown on this pic) and a couple of warning LEDs on the dash up in my eyeline, with illuminated rocker switches to control the two sets of lights.

I've got one of MikeO's dash trims, and the relays, connector blocks and switches are all going to be glued/mounted under that.....I'm doing it as a modular type thing so I can build the wiring onto the panel, then just plug the lights, ignition feed from my sidelight and the feeds from the two indicators straight in.

 

[topcat2006]

Medicman, I'm in Stroud, Gloucestershire. If you'd like to pop up one evening this week, or the week after next when I'm back from holiday I'll teach you all about relays.

 

[MEDICMAN]

Medicman, I'm in Stroud, Gloucestershire. If you'd like to pop up one evening this week, or the week after next when I'm back from holiday I'll teach you all about relays.

Promise, you'll be gentle with me.

Thanks TC, I'll PM you.

MM

 

[dr nosh]

Just a little bit more to add:

The wire to terminals 86 and 87 can be a 'thin' wire (technical 1.0mm2) and the wires to terminals 30 and 87 ought to be a 'thicker' wire (technical 2.5mm2).

Why. The terminals 86 and 87 are only switching the relay, so takes very little current. The terminals 30 and 87 are taking the current that is required by the horn, sometimes fuse rated at 10A.

 

[bisbee]

The Magnum has always been a plug n play horn for me drawing appx 6 amps I've had one on several different bikes with canbus without issue

 

[MEDICMAN]

The Magnum has always been a plug n play horn for me drawing appx 6 amps I've had one on several different bikes with canbus without issue

I'm not doubting you BB, it just me! It's allways me! Sods Law was actually writen with me in mind!

Things... just every day, ordenary things that work perfectly normal for other people just don't seem to do the same where I'm involved.

I have learnt from my past. I don't buy cheep because I know, I just know, I'll end up not just paying/buying twice but three or 4 bleedin times. So now I should know better... you'd think.

It's a wonder I haven't up't and died of the miseries.