MIFi

[Daffy]

I’m changing my camper and have a couple of options which I’d like a bit of help from those with experience or knowledge.

We have a tv in the van but find it a pain to get a signal sometimes and I’m told the aerial issue could be sorted with an omnidirectional aerial fitted on the roof but I don’t really want to drill any more holes in the van and it adds approx 200mm to the height as well as looking horrid.

I can use a fire stick but that means WiFi or mobile signal which isn’t great in a metal van with the blinds shut.

So I’m thinking of a netgear M1 with data sim but that’s only 4g but can be had for £199 new from eBay.

My questions are
1. Is it daft to go for a 4g mifi unit?
2. Is there anything cheaper than the net gear that is compact?
3. Will I need an aerial for it or can I just shove it up in the skylight?
4. Is there a better option that I haven’t thought of??

Thanks for reading this if you got this far.

 

[SOAA]

@sparkplug, this is your area of expertise I think

 

[SBD]

Watching with interest. Currently in a marina with excellent wifi, though haven’t tried streaming.

Home port wifi is hopeless.

My new iphone is 5G and seems very impressive, but again, don’t watch much tv so haven’t tried streaming.

 

[glenn2926]

I just use my phone as a hotspot and connect my iPad or laptop to the internet that way. We do have a TV in the van but in 9 years it has been on 3 times. Once to test it when I bought it, once for the grandkids to watch a film and once on the North coast of France to watch a football match.
The phone works very well but if you’re a telly addict it probably won’t be good enough.

 

[sparkplug]

Expertise might be overstating it , but I've certainly had a bit of experience with them.

My answers are:
1. Is it daft to go for a 4g mifi unit? No. 4G is plenty capable of giving you the speeds you need to stream TV or Netflix or whatever. I've had the M1 for probably four years and it's a good little unit. I personally think that the price jump to 5G versions is too high at the moment given that there just isn't 5G coverage in most areas so you'd most likely only be using 4G most of the time. This is what I was getting in Leeds on Monday (admittedly it's one of the best speeds I've had, but it gives you an idea of how good it can be!

2. Is there anything cheaper than the net gear that is compact? Yes. There are smaller units which are cheaper. I used to have one (I've forgotten the make/model) but unfortunately this is one of those things where you get what you pay for. My cheap MiFi unit and cheap antenna combo was actually worse than sticking my phone in the cab of the van and tethering to it! Buy cheap, buy twice. The M1 is the sweet spot I think. I've upgraded mine to a Teltonika 5G unit (yes, I know what I said in my first answer but there were other factors which made me go for this one, not just the 5G).

3. Will I need an aerial for it or can I just shove it up in the skylight? Ideally yes. Again, don't buy a cheap one or you'll be throwing your money away. Expect to pay no less than £80. I was very happy with my Poynting X-Pol but they now do hockey puck style things which are designed for vehicle use and that's what I would be looking at. As for not drilling another hole in the roof, I 100% get that. What you could do is stick a magnet to the base of the antenna and just sling it on the roof when you're parked up and want to use it. Don't forget to take it back down when you drive off though!

4. Is there a better option that I haven’t thought of?? Better? Well, I suppose a Starlink system would be better in terms of quality, however the prices get absolutely stupid. We've installed a few for work and they really are very good, but I'd not spend that out of my own pocket. Teltonika are also excellent, designed for use in vehicles and very robust. You can get ones which take two SIM cards so that if one of them loses signal then it automatically fails over to the other one and you can do a lot of clever stuff with them such as getting SMS notifications if your vehicle leaves a specific place (i.e. has been towed or stolen!). They also have a 'proper' firewall which gives you added protection as well as the ability to do proper networking stuff like VLANs and multiple SSIDs etc. The downside is that while the M1 is designed to work straight out of the box with just some minor setup, the Teltonika does need a bit more knowledge of firewalls and networking, however they do have an excellent support team and a really good online community / knowledgebase so depending on your existing knowledge and willingness to go through a bit of a learning journey they could be worth considering!

 

[ChasF]

I watched a couple of videos on You Tube on this subject (which is something I rarely do). One of the videos sung the praises of the Netgear M2 which I think is the 5g version of the M1 and very expensive. The video presenter seem to be more concerned about achieving massive data rates and concluded that Starlink was the best solution butagain v. expensive. The other point he made was that 5g could achieve much higher data rates than 4g but only had a range of a few hundred metres, relying on frequent repeaters in built up areas so not much use in a motorhome parked up miles from anywhere. We don’t have tele in the camper so we don’t need much data. We have very slow adsl (less than 20Mbps download - just tested it) here at home and that is fine for streaming Netflix and Amazon Prime.

 

[sparkplug]

All spot on ChasF

You actually need a lot less than you might imagine for streaming. Netflix quotes 4Mbps as a minimum 720p, 5Mbps for 1080p and 15Mbps for 4K.

So you really don't need the Starlink 200Mbps for watching something while camped up somewhere.

The thing that will likely make the most difference is which SIM card you're using. I've got the unlimited data Three mobile SIM which works pretty well in most places, but I've had places where it would get no signal at all and have had to hop on to my O2 SIM.

The Teltonika makes it easy to swap SIMs as it's just a front loading slot whereas the M1 needs the battery taking out and therefore a reboot, but it's not a big deal.

 

[stonehenge]

We have the system from Motorhome WiFi with the supplier Smarty card. 50gb data for £8. This is a 5G+ aerial, router and fitted for £290. Show offer. Works very well.

 

[sparkplug]

Indeed. There are a few 'motorhome' packages out there.

You do pay a small premium for having them figure out and install the bundle for you, but they're normally pretty reasonable bits of kit. Perfect if you want something that's plug and play and not to have to spend too much time researching everything (like I have )

Smarty are a sub brand of Three so you get full unrestricted access to the Three network. They've also started doing unlimited data SIMs with no contract so you can just buy one for £15 when you go away and not need to pay the subscription when the van's not being used.

 

[SBD]

Just browsing online.

Found the Teltonika unit at £133, a Poynting XPOL antenna at £88 / puck at £46 and an eu roaming sim deal at £25/month for 100gig.

Teltonika RUT241 Industrial LTE Router | NetXL

The Teltonika RUT241 LTE Router is a tiny form factor, cost-effective, flexible and powerful LTE router aimed at industrial professional applications. The RUT241 is the modified version of the best-selling RUT240 and inherits the industrial design, compact size, multiple interfaces, and RMS...

www.netxl.com

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/36007-poynting-a-puck-0002/?psafe_param=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmMayBhDuARIsAM9HM8eoJkTc90a5GmRkoPvsXZcbTpKkvDYu4xQpYQ7Y8xL09MkeSDe8574aAiBoEALw_wcB

Roaming and Call Charges - Popit

Roaming in the EU. We do not cap the data usage. If you have 1GB,3GB,10GB,30GB or 100GB you can use all of this allowance in the EU. All Roaming Partners are agreed with EE, Popit Mobile cannot check or advise on Speed related issues down to EU Networks Shaping Traffic while you Roam. While roaming,

www.popitmobile.co.uk

If I can make this work for teams and remote CAD, I can see ‘erself & I working from the boat…

 

[SBD]

Indeed. There are a few 'motorhome' packages out there.

You do pay a small premium for having them figure out and install the bundle for you, but they're normally pretty reasonable bits of kit. Perfect if you want something that's plug and play and not to have to spend too much time researching everything (like I have )

Smarty are a sub brand of Three so you get full unrestricted access to the Three network. They've also started doing unlimited data SIMs with no contract so you can just buy one for £15 when you go away and not need to pay the subscription when the van's not being used.

Like the SIM deal, sounds perfect as we use the boat for hols and long weekends with long periods of not using it in between.

 

[sparkplug]

The SIM side of it is the bit that's constantly changing and keeping on top of the latest deals etc is a bit of a faff.

As for the Teltonika / Puck combo in your previous post - yeah, that looks spot on.

The Teltonika will ship with some screw in antennas of its own and from what I can tell the puck only has two 2m cables which will screw into the router's 'cellular' connectors.

You should be able to use the provided Teltonika antenna for the WiFi terminal on the router which will maximise the available range of the WiFi signal in the boat.

Subject to having reasonable signal, Teams calls are not an issue. I worked 'from van' while in France for a week and nobody noticed

Remote CAD might be an issue though. Your download speeds will be significantly higher than your upload speeds - so I'm not sure if it will work with graphics intense applications like CAD. Only one way to find out though!

 

[SBD]

Thanks Fil,

The CAD is run on a decent machine in the office.

From home, I use the windows Remote Desktop via a VPN, and it’s great. I guess I’ll have to try it as you suggest. I spy a few more long weekends on the boat…

 

[Pukmeister]

I use a Netgear M1 in my caravan, I usually just plug into a USB power socket and away you go. I don’t put the battery in it as it gets hot on permanent charge. I’m in the process of making awning rail fittings for a telescopic flagpole to hold my Poynting external 4G omni antenna when in weak signal areas, but I have only had a weak signal from it once in a low lying camp site (natural bowl surrounded by high trees).

I find 4G plenty good enough for my Firestick for streaming content and easily good enough for web browsing etc.

I paid £120 for my M1 and it’s superb with a Smarty sim (Three network). I also use it for my personal laptop at work as I can’t surf the web openly on my employers very secure network. And as you say, it saves drilling holes in the caravan structure.

 

[Daffy]

Expertise might be overstating it , but I've certainly had a bit of experience with them.

My answers are:
1. Is it daft to go for a 4g mifi unit? No. 4G is plenty capable of giving you the speeds you need to stream TV or Netflix or whatever. I've had the M1 for probably four years and it's a good little unit. I personally think that the price jump to 5G versions is too high at the moment given that there just isn't 5G coverage in most areas so you'd most likely only be using 4G most of the time. This is what I was getting in Leeds on Monday (admittedly it's one of the best speeds I've had, but it gives you an idea of how good it can be!

2. Is there anything cheaper than the net gear that is compact? Yes. There are smaller units which are cheaper. I used to have one (I've forgotten the make/model) but unfortunately this is one of those things where you get what you pay for. My cheap MiFi unit and cheap antenna combo was actually worse than sticking my phone in the cab of the van and tethering to it! Buy cheap, buy twice. The M1 is the sweet spot I think. I've upgraded mine to a Teltonika 5G unit (yes, I know what I said in my first answer but there were other factors which made me go for this one, not just the 5G).

3. Will I need an aerial for it or can I just shove it up in the skylight? Ideally yes. Again, don't buy a cheap one or you'll be throwing your money away. Expect to pay no less than £80. I was very happy with my Poynting X-Pol but they now do hockey puck style things which are designed for vehicle use and that's what I would be looking at. As for not drilling another hole in the roof, I 100% get that. What you could do is stick a magnet to the base of the antenna and just sling it on the roof when you're parked up and want to use it. Don't forget to take it back down when you drive off though!

4. Is there a better option that I haven’t thought of?? Better? Well, I suppose a Starlink system would be better in terms of quality, however the prices get absolutely stupid. We've installed a few for work and they really are very good, but I'd not spend that out of my own pocket. Teltonika are also excellent, designed for use in vehicles and very robust. You can get ones which take two SIM cards so that if one of them loses signal then it automatically fails over to the other one and you can do a lot of clever stuff with them such as getting SMS notifications if your vehicle leaves a specific place (i.e. has been towed or stolen!). They also have a 'proper' firewall which gives you added protection as well as the ability to do proper networking stuff like VLANs and multiple SSIDs etc. The downside is that while the M1 is designed to work straight out of the box with just some minor setup, the Teltonika does need a bit more knowledge of firewalls and networking, however they do have an excellent support team and a really good online community / knowledgebase so depending on your existing knowledge and willingness to go through a bit of a learning journey they could be worth considering!

Thats great, thanks so much for taking the time to post for a technophobe.

I only really want occasional TV, MotoGP and basic internet so I’m thinking I’ll go for the M1 and see how we get on before i even think about which aerial (I’ll probably tap you up about that too)

Thanks also to everyone else who’s posted on this thread.

 

[SBD]

Ok, so don’t need battery in the router. I’m thinking the Teltonika does the job, and cheaper by far than the nighthawk. And a Poynting puck. Anything I’m missing before I splash the cash?

 

[sparkplug]

Thanks Fil,

The CAD is run on a decent machine in the office.

From home, I use the windows Remote Desktop via a VPN, and it’s great. I guess I’ll have to try it as you suggest. I spy a few more long weekends on the boat…

Ah, OK. That might work then as the upload is actually happening from your office computer / connection.

However, RDP and VPN also slow things down....

I'd be interested to hear how you get on as I've never tried either from my LTE router yet.

 

[sparkplug]

Thats great, thanks so much for taking the time to post for a technophobe.

I only really want occasional TV, MotoGP and basic internet so I’m thinking I’ll go for the M1 and see how we get on before i even think about which aerial (I’ll probably tap you up about that too)

Thanks also to everyone else who’s posted on this thread.

Always happy to share my experiences if they can help others @Daffy.

As a technophobe I would steer clear of my Teltonika suggestion then The M1 is pretty easy to set up and sounds like the right balance of things for you.

To be honest, in terms of antennas I'd go with the one that @SBD linked to here. I hadn't realised that the pucks had come down that much in price, but the Poynting stuff is really good. I think those even come with a magnet mount.

The only other thing you might need are TS-9 to SMA adaptors....

...yeah, I know you said 'techophobe' so in plain English that's just a bit of cable that will let you use the Poynting (if you decide to go for it) with the M1. They look like this.

 

[Pukmeister]

Good point about the adapters, mine were a couple of quid on Amazon.

All this MiFi stuff can be done for sensible money. That said, I started with a low cost Huawei 4G MiFi dongle, it was shit.

My used M1 was £120, my Poynting Omni antenna was about £45 and the adapters about £10. A Smarty SIM with monthly unlimited data is the cheapest I could find with the best 4G coverage (YMMV).

My flagplole is a work in progress, again about £40.

 

[sparkplug]

Ok, so don’t need battery in the router. I’m thinking the Teltonika does the job, and cheaper by far than the nighthawk. And a Poynting puck. Anything I’m missing before I splash the cash?

The Teltonika will come with a mains plug to power it. You can just snip the plug off it and wire it straight to your 12v system, or you might want to do what I did and buy the 'hardwire kit' or whatever they call it so you still have the option to plug it into the mains at home.

That's been useful for me a couple of times as I work from home a lot and when my Virgin connection fails I can just hop in the van and bring the Teltonika into the house and work from that.

The other option I bought was the mounting bracket, but to be honest it's just an L bracket with a couple of screws which you could probably make yourself. I've not used it yet as it hasn't been permanently mounted.

Another consideration, depending on budget, is to look at a few of the other Teltonikas. The RUT241 is only a Cat 4 router. A step up to the RUT260 takes you to Cat 6 for no extra cost really.

Why do we care? Well, Cat 4 (which is an LTE standard and not to be confused with ethernet cables...) gives you a theoretical maximum 150Mbps down and Cat 6 gives you 300Mbps (I'm rounding the figures but that's about right). I'd be spending my money on the RUT260...

The one I nearly got was the RUTX-14 which is a Cat 12 - but you're looking at £320 which is a fair jump and would need a bigger and more expensive antenna too....

Essentially as you go up the categories the routers are able to use more of the frequency ranges and combine them together to give you better speeds. This also helps you find a signal in more places.

But I'm just getting nerdy now