Newbie wanting advice please

snerkler, what a great username :confused::confused::confused: and also from Chesterfield :thumb

I'm not all that heavy at around 12 stones but with the nine stone boss on the back and luggage the wallowing used to drive me mad on the GS. Best bet from reading various posts on here is upgrade the suspension....pay your £12 and then prowl the for sale threads, I waited a few months and hit pay dirt (second time anyway after I was messed about and then let down buying some Ohlins) with a set of Wilbers for £300.

Of course a week later I saw a fully loaded 2009 GSA and traded the GS for it so never fitted the Wilbers. :blast Can't comment yet on the ESA as I've only done about 100 miles on it so far.
 
snerkler, what a great username :confused::confused::confused: and also from Chesterfield :thumb

I'm not all that heavy at around 12 stones but with the nine stone boss on the back and luggage the wallowing used to drive me mad on the GS. Best bet from reading various posts on here is upgrade the suspension....pay your £12 and then prowl the for sale threads, I waited a few months and hit pay dirt (second time anyway after I was messed about and then let down buying some Ohlins) with a set of Wilbers for £300.

Of course a week later I saw a fully loaded 2009 GSA and traded the GS for it so never fitted the Wilbers. :blast Can't comment yet on the ESA as I've only done about 100 miles on it so far.

Ok thanks for the advice. You you mind letting me know what you think ofthe ESA when you've done a few more miles please?
As for the username, just a word that was used in a previous workplace, and when thinking of a username this sprung to mind (After several pints I might add). The name's stuck ever since :eek
Chesterfield, what a great place eh? :thumb2
 
Surely it's what you (snerkler) think of ESA, rather than some other bod? It's you that is going to be riding the bike, not him.

For all you know he works for BuMW and does five miles a year around the delivery yard.

Here's my opinion:

A half decent suspension set up will beat or at least match ESA. Why? Because it has had years of patient development. OK, you have to twiddle a knob or two, as opposed to pressing a button. But get it set up properly - by someone who knows what they are doing - and you may well never need to touch it much again.

Now. Whose opinion is worth more? Mine (maybe I work for Ohlins??) or matey's... or are they worth the same? Worth nothing, until you get out and try a bike for yourself....
 
Surely it's what you (snerkler) think of ESA, rather than some other bod? It's you that is going to be riding the bike, not him.

For all you know he works for BuMW and does five miles a year around the delivery yard.

Here's my opinion:

A half decent suspension set up will beat or at least match ESA. Why? Because it has had years of patient development. OK, you have to twiddle a knob or two, as opposed to pressing a button. But get it set up properly - by someone who knows what they are doing - and you may well never need to touch it much again.

Now. Whose opinion is worth more? Mine (maybe I work for Ohlins??) or matey's... or are they worth the same? Worth nothing, until you get out and try a bike for yourself....

Thanks for the advice, and you're right. As you'll see from my post I said that ultimately I'll need to try it out for myself, but just trying to get a heads up before I get the chance. It is useful to hear other people's opinions, but I do make my own mind up.

Incidently, if you have ESA can you also manually tweak it, or is it just all preset?
 
I would agree with Wapping,whether or not ESA represents value for money and is a useful tool is down to the individual,but you asked for feedback so here's mine.
In 36yrs of constant bike ownership and there have been many,I believe ESA is one of the best accessories i have had on a bike,it takes a while to practice how to get the best from it but once you're conversant with it,it's an excellent piece of kit.

Steve
 
but I do make my own mind up.


Jolly good :thumb2

Incidently, if you have ESA can you also manually tweak it, or is it just all preset?

No idea, as I do not have it. If I had to guess it's pre-set in a few simple stages, maybe three modes for the ride quality and some separate method of setting the pre-load??

Why not trot down to your local dealer who (if they are any good) are paid to explain the system to your complete satisfaction.

Failing any of the above and if youi still need help to make your mind up, fill yer boots, it's a world of Goggle out there:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326251

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2008/10/details-bmw-esa-ii-electronica.html

http://www.suspensionshop.org/HP-hyperpro-BMW-ESA-adjuster.php

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=24142
 
So far as I was concerned ESA is just an electronically adjusted shock. Servo's twiddle the knobs your hands would so far as I know it isnt an active suspension system. It might be an easy way to do it but at the end of the day its just another BMW shock with fancy bits. I am quite sure you would be able to manually adjust a normal BMW shock to get the same results. My point being is that if you think the standard shock is going to be inadequate then the ESA version is ultimately going to be the same just with fancy bits on. If you want the best then I guess you need to get an ESA bike and put the new ESA Wilbers on. Easy setting up and if your that way inclined better damping.
 
For all you know he works for BuMW and does five miles a year around the delivery yard.

Nope, I work in a petrochemical plant in Saudi Arabia so no affiliation with BMW!

I bought the GSA on December 23rd, rode it home and stuck it in the garage, it hardly moved again because my road was still a skating rink when I flew back here 4th Jan. We're planning a tour of Ireland at Easter and though I don't have high hopes I'll have a better opinion of ESA after that, it wasn't something I wanted but I bought a six month old bike with it fitted.
 
So far as I was concerned ESA is just an electronically adjusted shock. Servo's twiddle the knobs your hands would so far as I know it isnt an active suspension system. It might be an easy way to do it but at the end of the day its just another BMW shock with fancy bits. I am quite sure you would be able to manually adjust a normal BMW shock to get the same results. My point being is that if you think the standard shock is going to be inadequate then the ESA version is ultimately going to be the same just with fancy bits on. If you want the best then I guess you need to get an ESA bike and put the new ESA Wilbers on. Easy setting up and if your that way inclined better damping.

How expensive are Wilbers?

If you start to mod the bike with different shocks etc will that invalidate the warranty?
 
My GS had Techno-Flex shocks on when I bought it! I have never adjusted them - infact wouldn't know how to.
I didn't realise how good they were untill I rode on a stock bike, as you say wallowy!

By the way, I'm 6'3" & 16 stone:eek
 
How expensive are Wilbers?

If you start to mod the bike with different shocks etc will that invalidate the warranty?

Cheaper than Ohlins. Ring a Wilbers' dealer. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=wilbers+suspension+uk&meta=&aq=1&oq=wilbers+

Only in as much as it would invalidate the warranty vis-a-vis the suspension. But as that is not fitted, you haven't got a problem. Unless of course it could be proved by BuMW that the removal of the OE supension (and its replacement by another) had a material effect on some other part, which is doubtful.

If in doubt, ask the dealer to do the work.

Don't forget to tell your insurer that the bike is not 'standard' will you.
 
you will invalidate the warranty on the parts you change so if you put Wilbers on your shocks aren't under warranty anymore but if your engine blows up it is still covered. No idea on cost I just know they exist and wont be cheap.
 
Hi, here's my lengthy analysis of ESA.

Let's start by saying I've noticed several riders not knowing that the standard BMW suspension needs tweaking, if you want to get the best out of it. Several riders I know never touch the suspension preload and damping knobs, missing out on a better ride experience. :rolleyes:

Those who don't want to to seak out the suspension/damping setting on a conventional suspension (BMW or aftermarket) may be better off with push button settings, and then ESA can be the right choice. On condition that they accept the limits that come with ESA.

If you're unfamiliar with the R12GS's 'Enduro ESA', here's what I found on
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/bmw/2008-bmw-r1200gs-review-78529.html

"Called Enduro ESA, the push-button suspension has settings for pavement, and are displayed in the same manner as the street-oriented ESA. Load options are solo rider, rider with luggage, and passenger with three damper modes (Sport, Normal, and Comfort). Note that in all its street settings the front spring preload is always at the minimum. And like on the street bikes, there are little helmets and suitcases on the LCD portion of the dash to indicate your selections. Where the Enduro ESA takes one step further is with settings specifically for rugged terrain.

The Enduro portion of ESA has what are called Medium Reserves and Maximum Reserves - a small "mountain range" symbol in the LCD indicates the former, a larger symbol for the later. After choosing between Reserves, your next job is to select from Soft, Norm and Hard. In the Medium setting, front and rear preload will be increased to 50% of its adjustment. In the Maximum setting front and rear preload is 100%. Ground clearance in Maximum mode is approximately 20mm higher than in the solo rider on-road mode. When it's all said and done, a total of 15 suspension settings are possible with Enduro ESA."

And now my 2 cents worth :

1) ESA suspension settings is actually 9 on road, and 6 off road. It's not like you have 15 settings on road. Since the weight setting (solo, +luggage, +passenger) is a given, in each preload setting you actually only have a free choice of 3 damping settings.

2) the preload settings (solo, solo+luggage, passenger) have been pre-defined; BMW has estimated and decided how much their average rider weighs, and has the preload setting on ESA installed accordingly. A rider whose weight differs significantly from the BMW estimate will never have a good pre-load setting when choosing 'solo'. The same can be said for the weight of the luggage and passenger; it is hardly likely that BMW will have chosen the right weight for your duo, and luggage.
This explains why there are aftermarket systems available to tweak these 'BMW ESA settings' to fit your specific weight(s), indicating a flaw in the ESA logic.

3) The damping settings have once again been pre-set. The range is between comfort-normal-sport on road, and soft-norm-hard off road. I've ridden a normal ESA on an R12RT, and found the 'sport' setting to be too hard for normal road use. That means I can't use this specific setting, leaving only 2 settings. I found comfort too 'wallowing' which meant the testride was in 'normal' mode most of the time. In short, I found the difference between the 3 damping choices too big.

4) It's nice to be able to set the suspension at the push of a button. But the push button adjustability says nothing about the quality of the hardware, the suspension/damper itself.

5) It's an expensive option.

6) The electronics that aren't there can't break down.


Taking this into consideration, and after having tested ESA on the R12RT, I bought my second R12GS, and had Wilbers installed after 32000kms/20000mls on standard BMW suspension.

To me the advantages of an aftermarket conventional suspension system are :


- pre-load can be changed in small steps, according to actual (not predefined) charge on bike. And I can change front or rear spring preload independent from eachother, independent of the road I'm on. It's true that this means searching for the right setup at the beginning, but after a short while you'll know exactly how much you have to adapt the preload for each charge : solo, solo topcase, solo all cases, solo passenger, solo passenger cases, etc. With Wilbers there's the added advantage that the 'solo' setting is preset for your weight at the factory. After fiddling about I found they got it right, so my adjustments are only necessary for when the bike is charged.

Now, being able to set preload exactly according to charge is better than 3 (perhaps badly) predefined settings, but once again, the charge on the bike is a given.

- it's actually when considering damping that a conventional suspension is brilliant : damping can be changed in small steps, not just 3 settings, but with Wilbers (hold your breath) 22 steps. Now, TBH, I don't use all of these 22 steps; my range is usually between 11 and 16 clicks from completely open. But, and this is where the advantage lies : for you it could be between 8 and 18. Individuality rules ! :clap
- as far as cost is concerned : some aftermarket suspensions have good resale value, which means your cost is not what you paid for them.

To end : I appreciate that the ease of setting of ESA will appeal to many riders. I preferred a conventional high end aftermarket suspension that I can set up to my liking.
The Wilbers suspension is BTW without any doubt the best investment on my bike. :drool Actually, any high quality aftermarket suspension outperforms BMW standard suspension in a way you cannot imagine. Confirmed by 22000km of riding through Europe.

I hope this opinion may help you in your choice ! :thumb
Others will come along with different views, I'm sure.
 
I've ridden a K1200R with ESA suspension and I thought it was a waste of time. My non-ESA K1200S only ever needed a bit more preload two-up and worked brilliantly whether on fast smooth A-roads or bumpy B-roads.

The non-ESA GS we tested in August wallowed really badly even with more preload; admittedly we didn't have a screwdriver with us to adjust the damping (17st rider + 11st pillion). SWMBO was very unimpressed....

My ESA GS feels so much better and didn't really cost me anything as I bought a pre-registered bike with the Dynamic and Premium packs included for less than £10k. Flicking between comfort, normal and sport modes on the move really does make a difference and being able to adjust the preload at the press of a button when a pillion gets on/off is very convenient.

Sure I could have bought Ohlins or Wilbers shockers, but why would I want to on a brand new bike? Shouldn't it work straight out of he box? ;)
 
...
The non-ESA GS we tested in August wallowed really badly even with more preload; admittedly we didn't have a screwdriver with us to adjust the damping (17st rider + 11st pillion)....

Of course, not adjusting damping will give the impression that the standard suspension isn't worth much. The more weight, the more preload AND damping is needed. Wallowing mostly being a consequence of ill adjusted damping.

...
Sure I could have bought Ohlins or Wilbers shockers, but why would I want to on a brand new bike? ...

The same can be said for ESA. If ESA shocks and standard shocks are the same quality, with ESA you just gain ease of use, while loosing the fine tuning of the standard suspension.

...
Shouldn't it work straight out of he box? ;)

Couldn't agree more.:thumb
 


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