A while back I had some contact with Julius Ilmberger ("De Man") & found his aftermarket support to be top notch, together with his products....
Yes i second that, spoke to the man himself, well helpfull, as is Nigel who owns Sanbar.
Steve
Problem with Sandbar Composites R12GS Hugger (long version)
- Thread starter Gog yn y De
- Start date
Yes i second that, spoke to the man himself, well helpfull, as is Nigel who owns Sanbar.
Steve
it was a 20 minute phone call*, but briefly......
i was after the extender flap that is fitted on the old long hugger to fit to my old short hugger. i found out they are different in that the long hugger is thicker/reinforced with a slot to accept the flap, which mine does not have. i might still be able to fit one, when and if they become available.
i was considering making a flap myself, but was advised thiat it was a trickier proposition than i thought. the hugger movers quite a lot with the paralever & care must be taken to avoid scraping the swing arm, or make the flap from a softish material.
ohlins produce a shock for the 1200S which has a splash guard cover on it. if i can find one, it might fit a wilburs.
i think i'll just fit my original old short hugger & see how it goes. it doesn't quite cover the shock but i reckon anything coming off the wheel may well be directed straight down anyway
*Nigel was paying. i told you, top man
I have the short hugger and as cookie suggest, I went for the little splash guard fitted to the shock. Seems to be a good compromise, the little splash guard on the shock protects the chrome rod on the shock from stones etc. I have no connection with Sandbar, but would just like to add, that having owned the TT hugger , which although seemed a great concept, turned out to be a night mare
, I find the Sandbar to be very well made and does the job to my liking. 
Hugger story
Well it has been rather a complicated thread to follow so I am sure that we all will look forward to the final episode ....BUT does the hugger really make any difference to the water/mud chucked up or is it just for looks? My standard mudguard seems to work OK but I do admit that it is rahter drier here than the UK!
Well it has been rather a complicated thread to follow so I am sure that we all will look forward to the final episode ....BUT does the hugger really make any difference to the water/mud chucked up or is it just for looks? My standard mudguard seems to work OK but I do admit that it is rahter drier here than the UK!
alimey4u2
Registered user
F*ck me, I dunno, bought it cos it's pretty carbon bling, the idea of riding off road on this very expensive monster of a bike, to me, is f*cking rediculous......
sandbar
Registered user
O.K. - here goes
A lot of this is going to be very boring and so to those who only have a passing interest I apologise.
Because this has become a public process, I need to explain the background so that anybody who has the patience to read right through this has the same understanding.
The hugger (aka the short one ) was our hugger for the R1200GS. Like all products it was not exactly what every prospective customer thought was ideal. You know the thing - too long, too short, too wide, too narrow, too carbon fibre, too light etc etc etc. Nevertheless it was a product that pretty much did the job.
One issue that kept cropping up was the problem of after-market shock absorbers which, unlike the OE one, had no built on protection. Less common an issue here in the UK than in Europe (Germany in particular). It was decided to try and address that problem.
Because BMW use a pivoting bevel drive, any hugger must be mounted onto the bevel drive and therefore be of a cantilever type design. This means that the front of the hugger will move up and down relative to the front of the swing arm. That up and down movement has a forwards and backwards component.
If you want to see that, then disconnect your torque arm and move the bevel drive up and down and see how much the front of the hugger moves. The problem then arises that not every bike is the same. Depending on shock length, preload and actual bike load, each bike will use a different portion of that available travel (movement). If you look at Gog yn y De's second picture you will see how little space there is to put anything extra to protect the shock.
So, what we added to the hugger needed to be flexible and relatively soft and we came up with what seems now to be called the 'flappy bit'. The downside of this seems to be that because of the softness and flexibility, wind pressure pushes the sides into very light contact with the tyre and hence the fraying.
The important point to emphasize is that all this was done to protect the shock. It had nothing whatever to do with whether or not the bike was an Adventure. It applied equally to the standard GS and the Adventure.
The first picture shows that actually it has not only done its job of protecting the shock, but it is still doing it.
In the centre, which is the part directly protecting the shock, it is still there, and if you look at the other pictures of the bike you can see that it has kept a lot of crud off the shock.
The fraying, obviously, is not what we would want. It must, however, be said that any mudflap, be it on your car, van or truck, would be regarded to some extent as a consumable item. In that regard I have to emphasize again, that there have been only two complaints received that I know of (to me or to Ilmberger) and both are from Gog yn y De. Once last year, and then the hugger was replaced, and the situation here and now. I am not in any way trying to insinuate that his complaints were not justified, but just to point out that this sudden, very public, controversy came as much of a surprise to me as perhaps it did to a lot of others.
Where do we go from here?
The requirement for the 'flappy bit' has decreased now, because the Ohlins (which is by far the most common after-market shock) is now available with a small guard that fits on the bottom of the shock. I gather that Wilbers are working on something similar. That is just one of the reasons why the 'long' hugger is now out of production. For those who want to try and get one, the BMW part number for the guard (as in the picture of shedracer's bike) is 33537702698 plus a couple of small nuts and bolts. Maybe that can be adapted to fit onto a Wilbers or whatever.
The next thing is that we are trying to come up with a modified flap kit that can be used to replace the frayed part. We are looking to see if we can still get the material and if not, a suitable replacement material.
When I have more information then - as they say - you will be the first to know :sunshine
In the meantime, I ask you to have a little more patience.
sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk
.
A lot of this is going to be very boring and so to those who only have a passing interest I apologise.
Because this has become a public process, I need to explain the background so that anybody who has the patience to read right through this has the same understanding.
The hugger (aka the short one ) was our hugger for the R1200GS. Like all products it was not exactly what every prospective customer thought was ideal. You know the thing - too long, too short, too wide, too narrow, too carbon fibre, too light etc etc etc. Nevertheless it was a product that pretty much did the job.
One issue that kept cropping up was the problem of after-market shock absorbers which, unlike the OE one, had no built on protection. Less common an issue here in the UK than in Europe (Germany in particular). It was decided to try and address that problem.
Because BMW use a pivoting bevel drive, any hugger must be mounted onto the bevel drive and therefore be of a cantilever type design. This means that the front of the hugger will move up and down relative to the front of the swing arm. That up and down movement has a forwards and backwards component.
If you want to see that, then disconnect your torque arm and move the bevel drive up and down and see how much the front of the hugger moves. The problem then arises that not every bike is the same. Depending on shock length, preload and actual bike load, each bike will use a different portion of that available travel (movement). If you look at Gog yn y De's second picture you will see how little space there is to put anything extra to protect the shock.
So, what we added to the hugger needed to be flexible and relatively soft and we came up with what seems now to be called the 'flappy bit'. The downside of this seems to be that because of the softness and flexibility, wind pressure pushes the sides into very light contact with the tyre and hence the fraying.
The important point to emphasize is that all this was done to protect the shock. It had nothing whatever to do with whether or not the bike was an Adventure. It applied equally to the standard GS and the Adventure.
The first picture shows that actually it has not only done its job of protecting the shock, but it is still doing it.
In the centre, which is the part directly protecting the shock, it is still there, and if you look at the other pictures of the bike you can see that it has kept a lot of crud off the shock.
The fraying, obviously, is not what we would want. It must, however, be said that any mudflap, be it on your car, van or truck, would be regarded to some extent as a consumable item. In that regard I have to emphasize again, that there have been only two complaints received that I know of (to me or to Ilmberger) and both are from Gog yn y De. Once last year, and then the hugger was replaced, and the situation here and now. I am not in any way trying to insinuate that his complaints were not justified, but just to point out that this sudden, very public, controversy came as much of a surprise to me as perhaps it did to a lot of others.
Where do we go from here?
The requirement for the 'flappy bit' has decreased now, because the Ohlins (which is by far the most common after-market shock) is now available with a small guard that fits on the bottom of the shock. I gather that Wilbers are working on something similar. That is just one of the reasons why the 'long' hugger is now out of production. For those who want to try and get one, the BMW part number for the guard (as in the picture of shedracer's bike) is 33537702698 plus a couple of small nuts and bolts. Maybe that can be adapted to fit onto a Wilbers or whatever.
The next thing is that we are trying to come up with a modified flap kit that can be used to replace the frayed part. We are looking to see if we can still get the material and if not, a suitable replacement material.
When I have more information then - as they say - you will be the first to know :sunshine
In the meantime, I ask you to have a little more patience.
sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk
.
Oh!
I am not Gog yn y De, have you forgoten about my complaint already?
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I am not Gog yn y De, have you forgoten about my complaint already?
sandbar
Registered user
I am not Gog yn y De, have you forgoten about my complaint already?
Sorry my mistake - I was not precise enough in my phraseology. I should have included the words "about the fraying on the flap". I thought that that was what the thread was about and that you would have understood that.
If you want me to be completely precise, then up until Saturday 14th April 2007 only one hugger had been returned because of a frayed flap and a second one has been complained about here on UKGS'er. That is both to me and Ilmberger. Is that precise enough?
Of course I have not forgotten your phone call on Monday or your e-mail to me the same day or the plethora of photographs. That e-mail to me contained the following phrase
I thought that you were using this as a convenient time to bring up a different issue - that where the hugger moved against the torque arm it had rubbed it.
My reply to you - on Monday evening contained the following:
That is exactly what I have done - including all the photographs.
I understand totally where you are coming from on this, but I am at a loss as to what else you expect me to do.
sandbar
www.sandbarcomposites.co.uk
.
Totally huggered
No problemo Mr Sandbar, you can only do what you can do.
I feel that the problem is Ilmbergers to sort out.
From your website,
From Ilmbergers website,
I feel that the Mk1 hugger is none of the above.
I certainly did not expect it to be wearing away my rear brake torque arm and the flappy bit looking like it had been cut from a pair of hippies jeans.
I paid a premium price for what I thought was a premium product.
I would like Ilmberger to replace the hugger with a Mk2 model as it has obviously been altered around the mounting points to alleviate the problem that I have experienced plus no flappy bit to worry about.
I hope you can impress upon Ilmberger the resolution that I seek.
Thank you for your time and effort.
KR
No problemo Mr Sandbar, you can only do what you can do.
I feel that the problem is Ilmbergers to sort out.
From your website,
From Ilmbergers website,
I feel that the Mk1 hugger is none of the above.
I certainly did not expect it to be wearing away my rear brake torque arm and the flappy bit looking like it had been cut from a pair of hippies jeans.
I paid a premium price for what I thought was a premium product.
I would like Ilmberger to replace the hugger with a Mk2 model as it has obviously been altered around the mounting points to alleviate the problem that I have experienced plus no flappy bit to worry about.
I hope you can impress upon Ilmberger the resolution that I seek.
Thank you for your time and effort.
KR
