Q for earplug experts!

[ericthebrave]

Hi, just been looking on the starcom website and saw this item http://www.starcom1.com/plugphones.htm

It says it attenuates ambient noise by 20dB...how would this compare to say a pair of laser lites / max lites. I had a look on some earplug websites, but they give earplugs a different sort of rating called an SNR .ie Laser Lites have an SNR of 35db, Max lites are 34db. Is the SNR value the same as the amount of noise attenutation? And am i correct in thinking that volume is doubled for each 10db increase (ie its not a linear scale)?

Thanks in advance

 

[GSmonkey]

3dB actually doubles the sound energy received by the ear - which is what causes damage, so this is what you should be interested in. You need to increase by 10dB to perceive a doubling in loudness.

I've got both custom plugs and Laser Lite earplugs. I've ditched the custom plugs for the laser lites, as the customs just don't do the same job. If you seriously want to protect your ears, use disposables IMHO.

 

[Tomcat]

I've got a set of the plugpohones, and normally use max-lites with a Schuberth Concept helmet (which is not the quietest of helmets). The plugphones are nowhere near as effective as the max-lites in cutting down on wind noise, but they're OK if you want to listen to music up to about 60mph. If you are thinking about listening to music on long boring motorway blasts then the plugphones are probably not the best choice - too much wind noise gets through.

HTH
TC

 

[Yellow Peril]

Eric you have a look here:- http://www.earplugs.gb.com/

They do trail packs of their range get one and just try the different plugs for comfort and noise reduction. Being honest the one that reduces the noise most may not be comfortable for you and you have to find the best compromise as they could be in you ear for quite a while. That's my two penny worth.

 

[ericthebrave]

i have some custom ones which i usually wear, but was just wondering about the starcom ones to see if they would be as good (i didnt think they would) so i could use their 'speaker / earplugs' instead of velcroing speakers in the helmet and using my custom made plugs. I think tomcat sums it up though in his response.


thanks

 

[wessie]

Eric you have a look here:- http://www.earplugs.gb.com/

They do trail packs of their range get one and just try the different plugs for comfort and noise reduction. Being honest the one that reduces the noise most may not be comfortable for you and you have to find the best compromise as they could be in you ear for quite a while. That's my two penny worth.

The supplier above is excellent. I bought a box of 250 pairs of EAR Neons from them.

A good explanation of SNR here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNR

When I first started riding I used what are now called EAR Classics. These have an SNR of 28dB compared to the Neon's SNR of 36dB. I've still got a few pairs of the Classics stashed away in the pockets of various jackets or luggage. Should I fit one of these instead of the Neons then I notice a huge increase in noise levels. I don't think I would be happy riding with earplugs that had an SNR of 20dB.

 

[sparkplug]

A few other points for consideration...

Be careful when comparing SNRs - make sure you get the full attenuation data so you can see how much of each frequency is cut out. The SNR is an average across the range and It's pretty easy to stop the high frequencies but it's a different story further down the range.

Do you really want to block out ALL the noise when riding? A good SNR30 (i.e. fairly even across the frequency range) will cut noise down to a level where no damage is done to your hearing which is the point surely? Earplugs are no good if you can't hear traffic / emergency services / ice cream van IMO

 

[guitarman]

A few other points for consideration...

Do you really want to block out ALL the noise when riding? A good SNR30 (i.e. fairly even across the frequency range) will cut noise down to a level where no damage is done to your hearing which is the point surely? Earplugs are no good if you can't hear traffic / emergency services / ice cream van IMO

This is a good point being made. People tend to look at the plugs which cut out the most noise with the result that you end up too isolated from the outside world.

My custom made plugs are designed to reduce, not cut out, the kind of noise that causes the damage i.e. high frequency constant noise. IMO disposables are too effective in cutting out noise and given a choice I'll always choose the custom ones.

Cheers

Dick

 

[Pint6x]

I've been down the road of trying disposables and always found that they isolate me too much from my surroundings. I am concerned about protecting my hearing - how much would it cost to get a pair custom made ?

 

[Mzokk]

3dB actually doubles the sound energy received by the ear - which is what causes damage, so this is what you should be interested in. You need to increase by 10dB to perceive a doubling in loudness.

I've got both custom plugs and Laser Lite earplugs. I've ditched the custom plugs for the laser lites, as the customs just don't do the same job. If you seriously want to protect your ears, use disposables IMHO.

What the man says is absolutely right. Most helmets produce in ear sound levels in excess of 100dB at the legal limit. A plug correctly fitted with an SNR of 30dB should reduce the noise to around 70dB from 100dB. Having said that some helmets are much worse than others. Ride recently did a test and I think found the Schuberth S1 to be the quietest. My Quantum F is pretty noisy and turbulence round the screen makes this worse despite the tobinators which have eliminated buffeting. I get much less noise on the GSXR because my head is in clean air. This is an aspect of GS riding that worries me.....also excessive noise is tiring. For comparison if your 8hr noise dose at work exceeds on average 80dB(A) then you should have training on hearing protection and it should be provided by your employer to wear. If you don't wear plugs on a bike you will damage your hearing. Also for comparison this 8 hr dose can be obtained by being exposed to a noise of 107dB(A) easily achieved by riding at 80 with no plugs and a noisey helmet for around 50seconds. Use hearing protection or you will damage your hearing. On a GS even with protection I reckon 80+ dB(A) is still easily achieved.

 

[Mzokk]

This is a good point being made. People tend to look at the plugs which cut out the most noise with the result that you end up too isolated from the outside world.

My custom made plugs are designed to reduce, not cut out, the kind of noise that causes the damage i.e. high frequency constant noise. IMO disposables are too effective in cutting out noise and given a choice I'll always choose the custom ones.

Cheers

Dick

Dick its not the frequency of the noise that is important its the total dose. So a plug for a bike should cover as wide a frequency range as possible. What noise induced hearing loss does do is cause the hearing loss to peak around 4kHZ (irrespective of the frequency causing the excessive dose) unfortunately that peak at 4kHZ results in loss of the ability to discern speech

Noise Induced Hearing Loss
Noise induced hearing loss is typified by a dip in hearing sensitivity, particularly at the frequencies which are most important for speech discrimination. This was shown in a now classic study of about 250 jute weavers in Scotland - "Study of Noise and Hearing in Jute Weaving" (JASA v38 p113 July 1965) by Taylor, Pearson, Mair and Burns. The weavers had been exposed to sound levels of approximately 100 dB. The graphs are of Noise Induced Threshold Shift - there would be no dip in ear sensitivity for people who are not exposed to noise. Note that many personal stereos are capable of producing sound levels well in excess of 100 dB

 

[Mzokk]

The wee graph above indicates that anyone working there for more than 15 years would be able to hear feck all accept a bass player.

 

[guitarman]

Dick its not the frequency of the noise that is important its the total dose. So a plug for a bike should cover as wide a frequency range as possible. What noise induced hearing loss does do is cause the hearing loss to peak around 4kHZ (irrespective of the frequency causing the excessive dose) unfortunately that peak at 4kHZ results in loss of the ability to discern speech

Noise Induced Hearing Loss
Noise induced hearing loss is typified by a dip in hearing sensitivity, particularly at the frequencies which are most important for speech discrimination. This was shown in a now classic study of about 250 jute weavers in Scotland - "Study of Noise and Hearing in Jute Weaving" (JASA v38 p113 July 1965) by Taylor, Pearson, Mair and Burns. The weavers had been exposed to sound levels of approximately 100 dB. The graphs are of Noise Induced Threshold Shift - there would be no dip in ear sensitivity for people who are not exposed to noise. Note that many personal stereos are capable of producing sound levels well in excess of 100 dB

I can't dispute your figures regarding overall hearing loss but on a bike it's the constant wind noise that is a problem on the bike and that's the range of frequencies that proprerly made custom plugs should be dealing with.

The fact that you've got a lump of rubber in yer ear is going to do a fairly effective job of lowering general noise anyway but you really do need to address the wind noise issue.

It is of course better to ride with any protection rather than none but personally I feel less safe using disposables, (Pint6x makes this point), it removes too much outside noise (and for me accentuates my tinnitus which is even worse). My own earplugs have an SNR of 28 with the high frequencies at 30 and the low at 22 (if I understand the spec correctly).

I've have my hearing tested every year and since I started wearing the plugs for gigging and riding I've not seen any further significant deterioration whereas prior to wearing plugs my high range loss was pretty bad.

Bottom line is, wear protection of some sort as you're gonna do damage if you don't

Cheers

Dick

 

[guitarman]

I've been down the road of trying disposables and always found that they isolate me too much from my surroundings. I am concerned about protecting my hearing - how much would it cost to get a pair custom made ?

Have a word with schianni.

My plugs cost about £100 some years ago. That was £30 for the wax impressions and £70 for the plugs but I'm sure our Green Leopard man is cheaper than that.

They are virtually indestructible and far easier to use than those foam jobbies and as they sit in a nice clean box and you're not screwing up the plugs with dirty fingers each time you put them in there's less chance of getting an ear infection. They're also useful for loud gigs

 

[sparkplug]

I resisted posting here because I thought it would lead to my standard disclaimer and sure enough...

I do make custom plugs but I won't fit you if you're not in my area (Cambs) as Green Leopard operate a dealer network so you would need to get in touch with your local dealer. Current RRP for custom plugs is £55 (despite what the GL website still says - we've had the first price increase in 5 years) but dealers are free to set their own prices so you may get some fluctuation.

A good idea is to get a few people together and go to one of the big shows (BMF etc) and negotiate a group discount.

Other earplug manufacturers exist and you should compare the product / attenuation data / SNR / CE approval etc etc to make sure you're getting what you want. Hearing is a very personal thing.

I'd also suggest you don't get tempted to add filters initially as a solid earplug gives you maximum protection and filters can be added later if you find you need them. This could save you a few quid and protect your hearing