Questions re Emtb (or similar)

[John B]

Reading all this and seeing pics etc. I'm becoming enamoured with the idea of an Emtb. Where I live there is a hill either way I come home and having been out on my regular bike (a bloody heavy but supremely comfortable Giant Cypress) it is a slog. So, what is the real life range of something like a Turbo Levo, and how easy are they to pedal without assistance? Can you pedal faster than their 15mph governed speed? I would like to do trails, byways and the odd bit of something more challenging but probably more local country lanes and trips to Waitrose!(This may replace 2nd car) I realise that I need to test ride one but not sure of dealer network locally. CheersJohn B

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Reading all this and seeing pics etc. I'm becoming enamoured with the idea of an Emtb.

Where I live there is a hill either way I come home and having been out on my regular bike (a bloody heavy but supremely comfortable Giant Cypress) it is a slog.

So, what is the real life range of something like a Turbo Levo, and how easy are they to pedal without assistance? About 30-35 miles range and yes you can, I find it ok with the battery off, on the road


Can you pedal faster than their 15mph governed speed? Yes, with a bit of trickery - free on the pre 2019 bikes and £130 on the later 2019 and 2020 bikes

I would like to do trails, byways and the odd bit of something more challenging but probably more local country lanes and trips to Waitrose!(This may replace 2nd car) Lock it up

I realise that I need to test ride one but not sure of dealer network locally.

CheersJohn B

There you go

 

[John B]

Hi JB, Thanks for reply, answered most of what I wondered about, re the top speed, I regularly trip my local village speed awareness apparatus, generally around 26-28mph flashing (I'm aiming to go over 30) but are the e-bikes 'governed' in any way that prevents them going faster than 15 mph, even under just pedal power? CheersJohn B

 

[Deleted account 220319001]

Hi JB, Thanks for reply, answered most of what I wondered about, re the top speed, I regularly trip my local village speed awareness apparatus, generally around 26-28mph flashing (I'm aiming to go over 30) but are the e-bikes 'governed' in any way that prevents them going faster than 15 mph, even under just pedal power? CheersJohn B

My understanding is, the 15mph is law, the ones that can go faster are governed under different parts of the same law, i.e. throttle response ebikes.

 

[jgk1459]

Turbo Levo are excellent bikes. I've had my 2017 since new, no issues.

Pedalling without the motor is ok but it's a heavy bike with fat tyres so hard work regardless of the motor. I can get around 75 miles when set to Eco with 15% assistance, obviously a lot less on trail or turbo. Mine tops out at around 17mph, it seems the first and second gen motors where a little flexible with the speed limiter. The early models can be easily hacked to allow much faster assisted speeds, if you want to.

I ride a normal mtb and road bike and the Levo is something different. It's not normal cycling, more a parallel sport.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nutty]

If you’re worried about going over the limit and not feeling it, save your money and go for something with a Bosch motor. The Cube bikes are brilliant value for money, and are easy to ride switched off, or past the limiter.

 

[Davey B]

My understanding is, the 15mph is law, the ones that can go faster are governed under different parts of the same law, i.e. throttle response ebikes.

Isn't the 15mph limit simply the maximum at which electric assist works...pedal like joe f### to get to 30 or 40 and you'll be fine, legally.

 

[Deleted account 220319001]

Isn't the 15mph limit simply the maximum at which electric assist works...pedal like joe f### to get to 30 or 40 and you'll be fine, legally.

err....I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant, legally the motors are bound by 15mph, not the rider

 

[Davey B]

Probably...I was going with what the OP was asking...no matter....he can get one and then try and blast past 30 by pedalling like Joe F### (or come where I live and easily hit 45mph on some of the hills)

 

[Howard J]

Turbo Levo HT does me fine for road, tracks, canal tow paths and the occasional foray into the forest, when I first got it I had a range of around 32 miles in ECO, but this was with 40% assistance which is a bit overkill, so I would say around 40 miles in eco at 30%. Cost wise they are I think still around £2250.
Without assistance it’s like pedalling through treacle

 

[Joca]

Has anyone seen the one I have for sale? It's not a mountain bike but very capable on everything else as a hybrid.


Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using Tapatalk

 

[DC]

I’m simple Terms OP, the motor on a legal bike is restricted to 15.5 mph , however if you keep pedalling the bike will go above that speed and the motor won’t kick back in till you drop below 15.5 again

 

[earthmover]

The legal form of ebike available in the UK today are more correctly called "Pedal assist" or "Pedelec" bikes. An example is the Specialized Turbo Levo, of which we have two. A Levo can be ridden without assistance from the motor, I have done it many times. It is a heavy bike however, so it isn't easy. A levo can be pedalled faster than the 15.5mph legal motor assistance cut off, I do it all the time. It is a heavy bike, so it isn't easy.
Any other ebike myths you want debunking?
Mark

 

[peepingtom]

there's A very good dealer in colchester ( cycle revolution) or failing that im only a couple of miles from them your more than welcome to try my Levo out to give you an idea of their awesomeness

 

[John B]

Thanks for all the responses, looks like I will need to do a bit of research and have a look round. Mr Peeping , thanks for Colchester bikes heads up, and thanks for the offer of trying yours, I may well take you up on that (Also love to have a glimpse of that Cagiva (from a distance) or the bits it may be in) CheersJohn B

 

[peepingtom]

Thanks for all the responses, looks like I will need to do a bit of research and have a look round. Mr Peeping , thanks for Colchester bikes heads up, and thanks for the offer of trying yours, I may well take you up on that (Also love to have a glimpse of that Cagiva (from a distance) or the bits it may be in) CheersJohn B

if you do send me a pm and ill send you my address

 

[Wreford Miles]

The law says assistance to 25kph (15.53 mph) from this point you’re peddling on your own and can go as fast as your legs can take you...But!

At this transition from assisted to you certain things happen, for one the motor has to disengage. Depending on the drive design you may find that your peddling is also being used to turn parts of the drive system so have some extra drag.

I’m not sure what motors have that, not the Specialized Brose and defiantly not the new Bosch CX motors.

What does happen at 25kph is you find yourself riding at that speed and dipping in and out of assistance - The Brose motor is not bad at this but you can feel a little tugging, my understanding is the Bosch is excellent here I’m guessing they have a slightly wider transition which must mean it starts before 25kph as it’s no assistance by law from that speed.

As for getting around it...

Bosch being do goody Germans have made it very hard and if you try and trick or hack it the motor will go into limp mode!

The pre 2019 Levo were easy to tweak

I’ve a 2019 Levo and they come with 29in wheels but can be run with 27.5 in wheels - If you opt for this the dealer can change the wheel circumference so the bike still assist up to 25kph.

My dealers set my wheel circumference to 2000mm the smallest it would go to and that does not affect the warranty. That means I now get assistance to c18.5mph and that is just enough of a difference to mean that I rarely find myself riding right on the transition point between assistance and not.

As for range - On a 500e Levo battery riding the trails 35-40 miles. If you needed to you could get more c50 would be possible any longer than that and you’re knocking the power back so much you are getting to the point when you might as well ride a normal MTB

Get a Levo with a 700W battery and you can do the math - The Levo app even has an option where you tell it how far you need to go and it will set the power. You could do this mid ride, where you see for example that you have used 60% and you’ve still got 20 miles to do. You just say I need to do 20 miles and it will make what power you have left last that distance.

I really rate the Levo but the new Bosch motor gets a lot of praise and it’s being fitted to a lot of bikes - In the other very long thread in this section I put up a video on a new cube costing c£4000 I’d be test riding one of those and the Levo if I were buying again

I’d also be looking at Peepings Levo as it’s got the extra battery and the carbon frame that same as they use on the top spec c£10k bike

 

[Deleted account 220319001]

The law says assistance to 25kph (15.53 mph) from this point you’re peddling on your own and can go as fast as your legs can take you...But!

At this transition from assisted to you certain things happen, for one the motor has to disengage. Depending on the drive design you may find that your peddling is also being used to turn parts of the drive system so have some extra drag.

I’m not sure what motors have that, not the Specialized Brose and defiantly not the new Bosch CX motors.

What does happen at 25kph is you find yourself riding at that speed and dipping in and out of assistance - The Brose motor is not bad at this but you can feel a little tugging, my understanding is the Bosch is excellent here I’m guessing they have a slightly wider transition which must mean it starts before 25kph as it’s no assistance by law from that speed.

As for getting around it...

Bosch being do goody Germans have made it very hard and if you try and trick or hack it the motor will go into limp mode!

The pre 2019 Levo were easy to tweak

I’ve a 2019 Levo and they come with 29in wheels but can be run with 27.5 in wheels - If you opt for this the dealer can change the wheel circumference so the bike still assist up to 25kph.

My dealers set my wheel circumference to 2000mm the smallest it would go to and that does not affect the warranty. That means I now get assistance to c18.5mph and that is just enough of a difference to mean that I rarely find myself riding right on the transition point between assistance and not.

As for range - On a 500e Levo battery riding the trails 35-40 miles. If you needed to you could get more c50 would be possible any longer than that and you’re knocking the power back so much you are getting to the point when you might as well ride a normal MTB

Get a Levo with a 700W battery and you can do the math - The Levo app even has an option where you tell it how far you need to go and it will set the power. You could do this mid ride, where you see for example that you have used 60% and you’ve still got 20 miles to do. You just say I need to do 20 miles and it will make what power you have left last that distance.

I really rate the Levo but the new Bosch motor gets a lot of praise and it’s being fitted to a lot of bikes - In the other very long thread in this section I put up a video on a new cube costing c£4000 I’d be test riding one of those and the Levo if I were buying again

I’d also be looking at Peepings Levo as it’s got the extra battery and the carbon frame that same as they use on the top spec c£10k bike

Excellent posting

Reference range, from what I can gather, as I know no better, range has many variables, not sure if this has been discussed already in this topic or Nutty's, but dependent on weight of rider, whatever mode they are etc but it seems range is more relevant to climbing rather than distance, as you're unlikely to climb for 10/20/30 miles.

 

[Myke Rocks]

You can, of course, fool any of them

With a BadassBox E.G. https://www.badassebikes.com/en/badass-box-ebike-tuning/shimano/badassbox-4-shimano-2019/a-210/
for example. They do them for every make and model.
I have a Bosch motor on a Sinus BC90 for road use. The assistance starts to fade at 25kph, and is gone completely at 27kph, but the fade is gentle, and unobtrusive. Absolutely brilliant.
My trail bike came ungoverned, so I do not have a problem there.
Most of my friends have governed trail bikes and find the limit obtrusive on level trails, but otherwise not.
If anyone should purchase a BadassBox, be aware that the speedo tells lies after installation.
Fitting and removal takes circa 5 seconds.
Myke

 

[Wreford Miles]

Excellent posting

Reference range, from what I can gather, as I know no better, range has many variables, not sure if this has been discussed already in this topic or Nutty's, but dependent on weight of rider, whatever mode they are etc but it seems range is more relevant to climbing rather than distance, as you're unlikely to climb for 10/20/30 miles.

The state of the trails has a big effect - This was a dry ride, in the winter those same trails on bridal ways become hard work and my battery would at best do c30 Miles

High cadence to extend power is your friend and some motors are better than others - Brose and 2020 Bosch are good

Big fat rider lazy rider with lower tyre pressure will kill a battery quicker than a fit rider on climbs who is using the right gear spinning and putting effort in.

I think I had about 5% left after this ride which has very little road work