Riding Skills Question???

[Timolgra]

Ever thought about writing a book Giles?

He already has...

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I think you're making a really excellent point. I would consider myself a very competent "road user," and hardly ever get in the wrong lane / wrong position on the road / rarely use my brakes / plan well ahead etc. But after seven years in a car switching to a GSA in December was a big change. I would say that a lot of the time my feel for the bike is good but I didn't expect to be great after a few weeks, that's one of the reasons for getting advice from the experienced riders on this site. Today proved that you can make instant improvements with some good advice and I was really happy with what I learned, but I still changed from first into neutral three times riding home!!!

Can you tell me more about "learning to ride the bike?"

Well, it's not easy to explain but I guess it's about experience, intuition & ability

Some people are better riders than others, but anyone can learn, I guess

It boils down to knowing what the bike can do & how it reacts

For instance a lot of riders are scared of a bit of gravel on the road, they tense up etc because the bike moves unexpectedly underneath them

However if you you're relaxed & let the bike move about a bit - it's no drama & fun

I've been on a GS ride in Wales a couple of years ago where a rider was so crap he fell off his bike twice in 25 miles - the last time depositing his bike over a bank into a wood & breaking his ankle. I rode his 12 GS out of the wood & over the wall/grass bank he just crashed into without drama, with some help from Humvee

He was rubbish because he basically couldn't ride except in a straight line or A road bends & tensed up when he saw gravel or leaves or oncoming vehicles & thus panic braked

He had no control over his bike & was scared of it

Find a deserted car park or road & turn off the abs & traction to explore the limits of the bike

See how it slides under emergency braking or how the bike powers put under acceleration

If the bike slides , counteract it by moving your body weight the opposite way, try releasing the brakes & reapplying them

Have a go at a stoppie on a dry surface, how do you cope if the rear wheel lifts?

Try locking up the rear wheel, how do you react if the bike 'squirrels' down the road, how do adjust the steering input & your body position, to control the bike's direction of travel

Just practice actually controlling the bike first

Many people go straight to big bikes without learning the basics on a small bike without any electronic safety aids like abs

Then you can learn the road craft with regard to speed, position & observation

 

[phooey]

don't understand the mentality that thinks that's a good thing.

they're there to be used IMO.

Its a choice - same as to use them.

If you can ride well without using them much it does show you can plan your progress. Not always the case with riders who use them more frequently.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

................Have a go at a stoppie on a dry surface, how do you cope if the rear wheel lifts?

..............

Really?

By his own admission the OP has only had his GS a few weeks and is struggling with feeling at ease on it.......I'd suggest not trying stoppies just yet; I count myself as very good at doing them but even I think twice before doing them on a GS.

Maybe just go for progressive, hard breaking on the front and feeling how the weight shifts to the front, for now

Andres

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Really?

By his own admission the OP has only had his GS a few weeks and is struggling with feeling at ease on it.......I'd suggest not trying stoppies just yet; I count myself as very good at doing them but even I think twice before doing them on a GS.

Maybe just go for progressive, hard breaking on the front and feeling how the weight shifts to the front, for now

Andres

Maybe you're right

Don't push the limits, just yet

Do anything in Post 47.............. at your own risk

What bike did the OP have 7 years ago, before the car and how long has he been riding??

Stoppies on a GS, guaranteed to tighten the sphincter

 

[Packer]

I................Can you tell me more about "learning to ride the bike?"

I'm pretty sure that is tongue in cheek but when I was an IAM observer I always stressed the importance of remaining relaxed. You've told us that you are new to the big GSA and this will result in some nervousness and in turn you will tense up. (Not surprising really, it's a huge quarter ton monster. It is also a pussy cat unless you wring it's neck.) This will restrict the fluidity of your control and input to the bike plus it will make you tired very quickly. You should always be relaxed enough to flap your elbows (like the chicken dance ) without affecting the bike. Even now I will consciously give the elbows a wiggle from time to time especially on a long run just to make sure that I'm not tensing up.

The other thing I'll point out, specific to winter, is that a wet salted road that is starting to dry out can be lethal. As the water evaporates you end up with slimy brine. It can be slippery enough to spin up the back wheel on an 1150GS in third gear at 2,000 revs. DAMHIK. Have fun but be careful.

 

[Deletedmemberjdcxxx]

I rode a Honda CBF 500 for my DAS course, but as a new GSA owner I would have to reclassify myself as a riding virgin. I did bring some good roadcraft with me and plan ahead to avoid braking in a car or on my bike. Unless its a complete stop I hold back and look for spaces etc. so rarely brake on my bike in particular. I thnk that constantly dabbing the brakes is a sign of an impatient and aggressiv edriver / rider.

I've been riding (which includes a commute from Leicestershire to Nottingham) since late December last year, so not very long but I have seen a big increase in my abilities. I respect the GS but I'm not scared of it and have spent a lot of time practising u turns / emergency braking / slow speed riding / standing up etc. on quiet roads. In the past working as an Electrician I've driven from Birmingham to Aberdeen and back in one day so I've done a lot of miles but I do appreciate Johnnyboxer's comments about experience. I'll be a better rider this time next year and my aim is to be an excellent rider but that will only come with a lot of practice.

 

[Wrinkly]

Lots of good info here and some not so good.

In relation to bends and corners, one simple thing I always try to convey to the folks I'm observing is to lift your vision don't just look at the 5yds directly in front of you,but look at the point in the road you actually want to go to (target fixation but in a positive way) and relax.

Steve

 

[Micky]

Its a choice - same as to use them.

If you can ride well without using them much it does show you can plan your progress. Not always the case with riders who use them more frequently.

My sentiment exactly

Yes, the brakes are there to be used ... of course they are

BUT if you can negotiate a twisty and regularly used stretch of road without using the brakes, this means, per se, that you are much smooooother, with less wear and tear to the machine, tyres, chains and sprockets (eh!) central nervous system AND deep joy to any pillion

This can ONLY be achieved by good observations, good planning, and accurate use of throttle and gears.

'It's Not Rocket Science'

 

[Giles]

I rode a Honda CBF 500 for my DAS course, but as a new GSA owner .......

Following on from my last episode of war and peace ......

The problem you've got (and take it in the spirit it's meant - just an observation and by no means meant to be critical ... ) is that you've not done an apprenticeship on a small bike.

If you start small, then you have a bike that is light, reasonably underpowered (Your CB500) and something that you can quickly master and ultimately learn to throw around. And more than that, you learn different ways to move it about. So like the chit chat about push counter steering / pull counter steering, on a light small bike, you can play and experiment. Weighting pegs? pushing the bike underneath you, keeping the bike up right but you the rider, getting weight inside the bike on a corner? Mucking about on full lock u turns? standing by the side of the bike, putting it in gear, left foot on the peg and driving off in a sort of push bike swing yer leg over once yer moving style .... ?? (and the opposite ... getting off the bike while it's still rolling ... ). Holding the bike stationary with yer feet up like a pushbike track stand ...? Riding a country lane and ABSOLUTELY THRASHING THE TITS OFF YOUR LITTLE BIKE IN EVERY FECKIN' GEAR ??
Some of these things are utterly pointless and are just games, but other things really teach you stuff. Counter balancing; Tight u-turns that are full lock from stationary, and lots of body weight counterbalancing the lean of the bike? Clutchless gear changes? Blipping between each gear? keeping the revs on and doing a silky smooth sustained rev change whilst you take two or three gears to one clutch movement? Brakes then gears?? Brakes and gears ??
It's all about becoming a natural, you becoming part of the bike, and over a period of time becoming so unconscious competent with how you control it (and the choices you make in which little tool from your tool bag you're going to use ...) that you no longer think. You just do it. Then ..... Then ...... you take those skills up the next step of the ladder onto a Hayabusa, A K16, A 150bhp KTM 1190 ....

Many moons ago, I got properly in to mountain biking. My first mountain bike was a full suss £2k bike (regular trips to Wales and all that ..). But I never had some of the sublime skills that one or two of my riding buddies had. And that's because, I never did an apprenticeship on a hard tail. I never learned to properly bunny hop, to float my bike over wet tree roots with little technical skills, lowered heels, weight right back ... Instead I got straight on a much more forgiving machine which meant I could get away with poor technique and just crash my way through stuff. But when I did need it ... I didn't have it. I remember enviously looking at some of my mates and being jealous of their outstanding handling skills. Some rooty gnarly, drop offy, tree across pathy, get over ditchy .... he used to make it so easy .... What a bastard ... !

I often read on here people saying how the GS is an easy bike to ride. Actually, I don't think it is. To me, an easy bike is your CB 500 ... 750 ... Fazer 1000 .... These are bikes that are smooth, light, easy to match engine revs, decent steering lock, low down smooth revs, both feet easily on the floor, very flickable; get a wrong line and you've only got to look in the right direction for them to change course in the blink of an eye ....
The GSA is tall, reasonably heavy, awkward on that wet roundabout in lumpy second or too high revs first, not the easiest bike to do seamless constant rev gear changes, (twin..) very planted (can be a good thing) but an oil tanker on a pre determined course! ..... so all things considered, you've jumped in at the deep end on to a heavy, vibey, lumpy 1200 twin.

Should you have done that ?? (yes! Of course you should - who are we to tell you how to enjoy yourself and what you may or may not buy - long live yer GSA and I'm sure you love it .. )

So that's where you're at! New biker, on a reasonably difficult heavy bike, (not a hard bike, but not what I'd call an easy bike) with only a few months worth of experience under your belt.

What can you do about it and how can you accelerate your learning curve?? Mneh You'll get there. Maybe do one of the skills courses, regularly go to a car park on an early Sunday morning and play?

Or .... or ..... You'll buy a little 350 off road bike .... and learn to ride on dirt! Then .... Ohhhh yes ... Then your grasp of technical skills will simply soar ...

 

[Micky]

.... just an observation and by no means meant to be critical ... ) is that you've not done an apprenticeship on a small bike.

...... regularly go to a car park on an early Sunday morning and play?

Feck me youngun ... you kinda take the words right out of my mouth

Long since are the days I would take my BSA D7 (that's a 175cc you know, not a 125) on to the school playground where, during the week, we had made a rait good slide in the snow, turned to ice, a crackin' slide it was, but me and a couple of mates would be riding that same slide at the weekend on our 'bikes

Mostly we would fall off, sometimes we didn't

We learnt

Good post Giles

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

@ Giles.............I said most of that, in Post 42

No substitute for a small bike for learning on

 

[Giles]

Yeah I know!

Now Trials ..... There's a way to learn how to ride a bike.....

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Yeah I know!

Now Trials ..... There's a way to learn how to ride a bike.....

Cut my teeth doing it, from 12 years old

Helps no end and then leads to a life of trailriding messing about

 

[Timolgra]

Now Trials ..... There's a way to learn how to ride a bike.....

Forget everything you know and start again

 

[Micky]

Cut my teeth doing it, from 12 years old

Helps no end and then leads to a life of trailriding messing about

.... and a mere 'Silver' on the Stella Alpina

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

.... and a mere 'Silver' on the Stella Alpina

Aye, bike preservation & protection..............it was a long way home

 

[Smug]

Ever thought about writing a book Giles?

 

[Bounce]

Yeah I know!

Now Trials ..... There's a way to learn how to ride a bike.....

Amen to that!!!! I'm looking forward to my road ride with Professor Giles.....

 

[Deletedmemberjdcxxx]

I thought long and hard about a smaller bike, but I didn't want one.

I do understand the "supposed to have a small bike first" mentality but there was only one bike on my list. Although I took a long break from riding I would imagine that switching from any bike to a GSA would have its issues. Having ridden to work every day for the last few weeks I can see a huge improvement and recognise my weaknesses, I do tense up occasionally, fluff the odd gear change and may not have "served my time" but I am prepared to serve it now.

I don't see a big difference between getting advice from this site and completing the Bike Safe course that I've just booked. We all have a point of view and I don't have a problem filtering out what suits my riding style. Buying a GSA as my first 40+ bike has been a challenge and Giles is absolutely right; it hasn't always been the easiest bike to get to grips with. With that being said, I love it and wouldn't part with it. Its taken a few weeks to really become "my bike" and it will take a lot more miles / camping trips / close calls / advanced training etc. to really cement the relationship, but I don't mind making mistakes as long as I learn from them.