Riding Skills Question???

The OP is probably nowhere near the edge of his tyres but the preservation switch in his head will not allow him to lean it over that little bit more. A careful look at his back tyre might help convince him that he has lots in reserve.

This is where track day training is useful to reset your safe angle of lean.
 
Look at the vanishing point (if it moves towards you the bend is tightening, if it moves away the bend is opening) and look as far ahead as you can, your eyes should be flittering all over the place feeding you as much information possible about the world around you AND the road ahead.....

reading the road is easy.

Exactly.

See HERE or HERE

Use the vanishing point to match your speed to your vision is absolutely right. If you need guidance to determine the relationship twixt the two seek professional advice. If you are going in at what you think is the right speed for the bend and it 'suddenly tightens' on you it probably needs some adjustment.

I appreciate the 'use counter steering' comments ( adjust your line ), but the problem I see is the the primary principle of how to use vanishing points in blind bends is already compromised. If the bend then tightens further still having leant the bike more you may be stuffed !

In slow - out fast but wait until you can determine the severity of the bend and clearly see the road surface which you intend to use to get round it before you commit yourself it removes the necessity re adjust part way round.

What happens if you go into a bend that tightens up and you don't have the option to change your line to get round ?

That's why the Vanishing Point used intelligently works.

Yep, I agree with the above points. You can obviously steer a bike around a corner but if you learn and use the vanishing point ANY road ANYWHERE will NEVER catch you out by suddenly tightening up :thumb2 and anyway, bend don`t suddenly tighten up, they`re always like that and never move ;)
All the countersteering in the world won`t help you enjoy the ride if you can`t read the road properly

Good luck and enjoy learning, its good fun and handy to explain to pillions as well so they know when the vanishing point is coming toward you the rider will be slowing and as its going away they`ll be accelerating :D no excuse that they didn`t know what you were going to do next :rolleyes:
 
Wow a helpful post by me!!!!!! who'd have thought it.
 
Hi Guys,

Success!!! I tried a much more positive push down on the bar riding home. I must have been a bit reserved due to the lack of recent riding experience and the wet roads. To explain a bit further the corners in question are in built up areas so the vanishing point wasn't as obvious as on an open road. I'm happy with leaning over and my back tyre is worn all over!!! It was more of a technical issue of increasing the lean angle to tighten the bend on a GSA. I'm still getting used to the size / weight and it certainly is the case that wet roads aren't ideal, but I've got to get used to winter riding. As always the advice on this site is excellent and has really helped, thank you guys.

Cheers,

John.
 
As others have said. Sounds like you need to practise countersteering techniques. Google will feed you all the info.

Go to amazon buy twist of the wrist 2 by Keith code

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-performance-Riding/dp/0965045021

Read the reviews

I know it sounds like a porn film but it's actually a book written by Keith code of California super bike school

He explains everything you will need to know to ride fast smooth and safe

I read it 10 years ago when I had my zx9r and my world changed along with my confidence and skills

Best tenner I ever spent!!!!!!!

Good luck

H


Sent from my iPad using Technology I do not understand
 
@ John the OP Have you read Motorcycle Roadcraft ? If not pm your address and I'll send you a free copy ;)
 
Hi Bisbee,

Yes I have got a copy but thank you for the very generous offer. I hope my original post didn't make me sound completely useless. I've been practising advanced driving techniques for many years as a driver, (up to 80K miles per year.) I've been back in the saddle for a few weeks now and have never owned a bike as big as a GSA so its a bit of a learning curve.

Many thanks,

John
 
Full marks for riding in winter I find the first and last half hour the worst In the first the bike is cold and in the last the rider is cold when concentration can lapse especially near to base on familiar roads
There is no substitute for putting the miles in :thumb
 
Good effort John :D The vanishing point should`nt make any difference if its a hedge or a house as your limit point, it should still work :thumb2
 
John, book yourself on a bikesafe assessment day at Police HQ Enderby.... They'll address the issues you're worried about...

I can personally recommend it :)

Well worth a day out :thumb2
 
For me, there are two channels of training / instruction if you like.
You've got the mental game of roadcraft; that game of chess with vision, planning, scanning, vanishing points ... and then you've got the physical game of how we control our bike; all the things that have been mentioned from counter steering to brakes and gears and body positioning. And those two things run pretty much hand in hand.

I still remember, like it was yesterday, my first 'big bike'. I was living in London, commuting from the isle of dogs, and I specifically remember really struggling to turn it on wet shiny bitumen roads, having just got it, in the middle of winter. (This was 1984 ... :D)

One day, I picked up some book in WH smiths, 'your first super bike' :rolleyes: and I remember, eyes wide open, reading about counter steering! I never knew about it, jeez, I'd never even heard of it - and I remember feeling really cheated, that it had never even been mentioned when I'd done my training and taken my test.

And that had been my real sticking point - a wet shiny right hand bend, and me getting nearer and nearer the parked cars on my nearside as I tried to turn.

So I hear your pain, and I can almost see you struggling on those wet shiny roads, the odd sniff of diesel, tension in your arms, target fixating on the road surface, and really struggling to relax on the bike.


So, first off, check yer tyres. The difference between good and bad tyres on these winter roads, is chalk and cheese. Honestly - it really is. If you're running on something made of bakelite, bin them and get something decent. PR3's, Road smarts, TR91's ... that sort of thing. And this is even more relevant in my opinion, in town. Contrary to what some may think about wet country lanes, they generally have a damn site more grip than a wet urban ring-road. (And check your tyre pressures ...).

Knowledge is power. Carefully analyse what you're doing when it feels bad. Can you do the funky chicken mid-corner? Could you go round some of these corners with just one hand (Your throttle hand!) on your bars and the other in your lap? (assuming you don't need to feather your clutch). Where exactly are you looking when it feels bad? At the road ahead or down on to the road surface staring at all that slippery stuff?

You should have the lightest touch on your bars, but the reality of stress (wet winters morning, with cold tyres, a slippery urban road and an HGV in lane two) is that it manifests itself in us, with i/ tight arms, ii/ chopping the throttle mid corner, iii/ very low vision / target fixation (staring at every manhole cover and squashed fag packet), a tense torso, and the worse sin of all, grabbing the brakes mid-corner out of sheer panic.

Do you recognise any of those symptoms ?? :D My body still wants to do that when I'm stressed! Yes, my stress levels may not kick in as earlier as yours - but it's all relative - they'll still kick in if I push the envelope hard enough. But the power and the knowledge I have, means that I understand why my brain does what it does. And that helps me cure it.

So if I'm steaming into that shiny bitumen, badly cambered bend, maybe I'm in a bit hot, I know what will fire up my 'bad triggers' if you like, and what my brain will try and do to me. So in return, so I'll counter them back.

Tight arms will see your steering just go to pot. Imagine a steering damper on your bike. Well you have two!! Yep - both yer arms! And when you get stressed, and they tighten up - yer bike won't steer - it'll go straight on. Target the tension in your arms by making yourself relax. Check your elbows, do the funky chicken, sing 'I feel like chicken tonight ... '. Don't suffer with tight arms. (A good excercise on a country road is to stick the bike in 5th and drive for mile after mile with your left hand in your lap.. :thumb2)

Target fixation is real. It happens to us all. If we're on a wet road, and we're about to ride over a squashed fag packet or coke can, will it actually throw us off our bike?? No, it won't. I promise you, you'll just go over it with no drama at all. So why look at it ?? It saps out attention, it kicks in tension (:eek Gasp ..... fuck ..... man-hole cover coming up ..... tense arms and stare at it ... :eek ..) and staring at it, will cause you more problems than just riding over it. Recognise it in your riding! Tell yourself not to stare at things (especially the floor) looking at what you're riding over will not help you one jot !

Finally, counter steering ...

Work out what works for you. Some peepes like to push, some like to pull. So don't be a slave to what you read. Have a play with weight through foot pegs. I do a fair bit of off roading, and for me, the very scenario you're talking about would see me weighting my outside peg, and lifting (pulling) that same outside bar with high elbows ... against the weight of that outside peg. (Geddit ??) Almost like putting a foot on a door frame and pulling the door handle of the jammed stuck door. Some may say that's a load of shite :P, some may say they prefer pushing a bar ... it doesn't matter. What matters is what makes you feel confident, and what works for you.

Go and play. Play games. Ride standing up, ride with one hand, ride with no hands, ride a country lane standing up .... then with just your right hand ....
Learn the relationship of how you, as a rider, when you're stressed, restrict and ultimately fuck up the bikes ability to go round a corner :P
 
I did a riding course a couple of years ago and one of the excercises was braking in a bend in the wet with a pillion on board to show that the bike doesn`t sit up on its own when you apply the front brake in a bend, YOU make it sit up :clap The secret was keeping your arms loose and grip the tank with your legs while braking :thumb2
 
Learn to to ride the bike first

You shouldn't need to think, everything you do on the bike be automatic and natural

You should be at one with the bike and know how it reacts, before it reacts

Riding a bike should be fluid, not awkward

Then, after to learning to ride the bike..................you can improve your 'roadcraft' and learn to ride the road and worry about positioning/observation/countersteering etc

It's amazing how many riders struggle to ride their bike or any bike, they're really bad at understanding how to ride it

So they end up frightened of it:blast
 
I think you're making a really excellent point. I would consider myself a very competent "road user," and hardly ever get in the wrong lane / wrong position on the road / rarely use my brakes / plan well ahead etc. But after seven years in a car switching to a GSA in December was a big change. I would say that a lot of the time my feel for the bike is good but I didn't expect to be great after a few weeks, that's one of the reasons for getting advice from the experienced riders on this site. Today proved that you can make instant improvements with some good advice and I was really happy with what I learned, but I still changed from first into neutral three times riding home!!!

Can you tell me more about "learning to ride the bike?"
 
Keep the thought process simple......start with....

Don't turn in too early.
 


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