ROSPA Riding
- Thread starter King Rat
- Start date
Obviously crossed wires, but no, I'm only misunderstanding part of what you said. Yes, I see what you mean now...but if the test is rigorous enough, then playing devil's advocate, surely if the standard is met, then the person being tested has met the standard, so I can see the other side to this as well. Is then, the suggestion that the standard itself isn't set high enough? Just interested in your thoughts, especially from someone holding an important role within IAM who seems to be very critical of them.
There are some L/O's under the old system, imho, who shouldn't have been L/O's because the standard imho was not being met through lack of decent instruction, despite them passing the L/O test rides, just as there are those who were first class observers arising from the same process. With some, it wasn't lack of knowledge, it was simply that there will be those not best suited to undertaking an instructor role even if their own riding was very good, because their talents lay elsewhere.
At some point, I will try and sit the Rospa N/O test for a direct comparison. I see that the IAM have increased membership fees this year and the cynic in me sees this as a cash grab for an organisation of mainly very dedicated volunteers being used as a cash cow, so on principle it's wait and see whether members jump ship. I've met a lot of very dedicated and talented riders and instructors within IAM and there's undoubtedly a very talented pool of experienced riders there.
You're not the only one Andy. The process has led to the group losing a number of Local Observers, who are defining to take the NOB test and also a number of highly-experienced Nationals, who feel the process puts no value on their experience.
I agree that under the previous system it is certain that there were some Local Observers who weren't as good as others - possibly even some who didn't really meet the "required" standard. In a well-run group, that should be managed through on-going training and development and it really didn't need the IAM sledgehammer to crack a nut approach.
My point is that the revised approach doesn't change the situation on the ground one jot - mainly because the process itself is so flawed (hence my pilot solo comment). All that's happened is that the groups end up back where they started, with observer quality largely unaffected (positively or negatively), a huge additional training workload, for which we get no thanks or even acknowledgement from the IAM, a loss of Local Observers who don't want to take the test because they don't see the need or point and a loss of experienced National Observers who see the whole thing as devaluing their experience.
Meanwhile, our group continues delivering great coaching, on track for a record number of test passes this year.
Onwards and upwards...
Yes, I agree with you there Richard. Hard to understand why IAM took this decision other than in their own minds to formalise things by eliminating the L/O role and in doing so have undoubtedly lost some highly valued people. Baby thrown out with the bath water, but it's not all bad as we still have some excellent people involved in training.
The frustrating thing is that I think the training is generally very good, largely despite the IAM, rather than because of the IAM.
There are one or two groups that are moving to being agnostic. They are applying for their own charitable status, sorting their own insurance and then setting up to train people towards either IAM or RoSPA qualifications. They are completely independent and free from the influence of either umbrella organisation, only interfacing with them at test time.
Not hard to see why. Takes a lot of effort to sort out though...
All you IAM and ROSPA observer and test examiner people:
How do you get the rider to lose the anxiety of 'being on test'? Not the training rides, or the pre test assessment ride but once the examiner turns up and it is for real? I had to pull over and be physically sick due to the anxiety of 'exam nerves'. It is a real thing that I have never lost. To the point of really affecting my riding and decision making - and remembering the route that was described before we set off. I went wrong at the first roundabout... after that I was in pieces. My insides were churning with bats in my stomach, never mind butterflies.
How do you get the rider to lose the anxiety of 'being on test'? Not the training rides, or the pre test assessment ride but once the examiner turns up and it is for real? I had to pull over and be physically sick due to the anxiety of 'exam nerves'. It is a real thing that I have never lost. To the point of really affecting my riding and decision making - and remembering the route that was described before we set off. I went wrong at the first roundabout... after that I was in pieces. My insides were churning with bats in my stomach, never mind butterflies.
Wow!
I can only say that it's not, or should not be, about the test.
IMO , road traffic law and the HC aside, advanced riding is about "it depends" and not "You must ..."
So there's no such thing as the perfect ride and the test is just another stage in honing your skills and not an end point.
I know our examiners go to great lengths to put the candidate at ease. On my test, I got the route wrong and the examiner (who's still with us) stopped me and repeated the route and the mantra... "It's a riding test not a route following test."
It's not easy to relax in any test context but the test itself should not be a big deal.
At the end of the day, it's the process and the learning experience leading up to it that matters and the test itself should be the least important part.
Hope that helps?
It sounds like you've always had pre exam nerves...I doubt any examiner or observer can quell them now. How about hypnotherapy?
Perhaps have a chat with whoever runs the group and explain your situation...you can't be alone with it...but yours does sound extreme and if it were me...I'd not put myself through that and hopefully the group would allow you to just do your usual training rides or whatever they're called?
Perhaps have a chat with whoever runs the group and explain your situation...you can't be alone with it...but yours does sound extreme and if it were me...I'd not put myself through that and hopefully the group would allow you to just do your usual training rides or whatever they're called?
That seems very extreme. As an instructor I've trained 1000s of riders for their tests and I've never had one who has had nerves on test day as bad as this. I ensure they are fully prepared with the very best of training, give them lots of words of wisdom to help them relax. I get them in 90 minutes before test to get them relaxed in the classroom, discuss a few scenarios on the white board and then lead them out on a 40-45 minute warm up ride to get them into the correct mind set and relaxed. I remind them that the examiner is a human being and a fellow biker, very fair and he wants them to pass and if they think they have made a mistake just forget it and crack on and forget it,, you can't change it. Candidates are often far harder on themselves than the examiner - two weeks ago my student rode back into the test centre car park at the end of his test shaking his head, he'd convinced himself he had failed, and I did think maybe he had made a big mistake that he knew of. The examiner then told him he had passed and that there were no faults worth mentioning - a clean sheet! Similarly this week, I had three on MOD2 tests, all passed first time of asking and one of the candidates again told the examiner that she had made lots of mistakes only to be told that there were only three worth recording.
Your situation is obviously something that has affected you all of your life so maybe you should explore some strategies that help you relax and control the emotions, maybe yoga for example.
I'm lucky in that I have passed every single driving, riding, IAM, RoSPA tests and my DVSA assessments first time. I don't get stressed as I ensure I am fully prepared and I go in with the attitude I know I am good enough to pass and I am just going to ride how I always do and if I fail it is not the end of the world.
Good luck, I hope that you find something to help you cope with your test anxiety.
Guess everyone gets anxious, but for me it just focuses me. But I've always been ok with exams and tests, if I've prepared enough I know I've done all I can and just get on with it.
Agreed. When training something professionally (& safety critical) we always found making the training as intensive & demanding as possible so if trainees survived to take the pass-out you often heard the words "Well that went better than I expected"
Bit different I know when training & assessing a MoP.
Loved my ROSPA training, made me a better rider and much more risk aware. However… hit a patch of diesel going around a roundabout the other day and came to grief! All well but a salutary lesson that however well trained sh*t happens. Good luck with your training.
I was on my first RoSPA test.
I was convinced I'd failed after not stopping at a zebra crossing. The pedestrian was not actually on the crossing, but it was clear they were about to cross and I didn't stop.
I rode the rest of the test, convinced of failing, only to get a Gold.
I did pass, but it was the under extreme duress and anxiety. I suppose it is pressure I put on myself, but it still made me poorly. I am not paying anouther £100 just to upgrade a step. My question was more about any possibly ways of combating that anxiety.
What he said +1
Yep - many of us have been there. My diesel incident about 18 months ago saw me travelling down the outside lane of the North Circular on my arse, following my 1250 on its side as it wore through the cylinder head.
Still can’t get the noise of the bike scraping along out of my head…
Ouch!! Fortunately I had SW Motech Crash bars fitted, protected the engine and my leg nicely. Had to replace RH Crash Bar as it had nearly worn through but no damage as such to the bike.
Indeed I did and it was.
But I was apprehensive beforehand ( and didn’t describe my skills as “ Advanced” - he decided that was the most appropriate description)
For the anxiety issues (I find it's quite common amongst fairly new trainee observers and from associates) all I can offer is that the more you ride and put roadcraft into practice, the more confident folk generally become. Part of the issue for me is managing expectations of others. It's up to the candidate in either case, whether they wish to put themselves forward, and I'd try and eek out any differential between the box ticking exercises (as some get the boxes ticked within 6 rides accompanied to a "you're ready") and what a candidate feels themselves. It can be counter productive not to offer additional rides simply to build up confidence in the candidate. Good preparation can avoid some anxiety issues, so knowing the HW Code, ARC manuals back to front etc all help but there will always be some who feel exam nerves.
Having elected to take several check rides on my own observer training, I witnessed greatly differing standards and approaches by some instructors and examiners. What I found unhelpful were those electing to take the box ticking exercise to heart rather than motivating candidates with what they got right, did well and providing there were no serious safety or legal issues, then why concentrate on pedantry where come exam time, it was of no merit? I felt totally demotivated by one individual so had another check ride and blitzed it mostly due to the approach of the instructor putting me at my ease from the start and avoiding any defensiveness. I'd argue a lot of it can be combatted by experienced examiners who aren't just there to tick the boxes but to continue the motivational approach. Sadly, there remain some examiners who are more about stamping authority from the outset and providing a list of what constitutes a fail from the outset, then picking out every tiny detail, where often it may simply be down to differences of approach rather than any real shortcomings in the ride. Standards are there to be upheld, quite rightly, but the approach to getting there is far from uniform within some organisations.
Having elected to take several check rides on my own observer training, I witnessed greatly differing standards and approaches by some instructors and examiners. What I found unhelpful were those electing to take the box ticking exercise to heart rather than motivating candidates with what they got right, did well and providing there were no serious safety or legal issues, then why concentrate on pedantry where come exam time, it was of no merit? I felt totally demotivated by one individual so had another check ride and blitzed it mostly due to the approach of the instructor putting me at my ease from the start and avoiding any defensiveness. I'd argue a lot of it can be combatted by experienced examiners who aren't just there to tick the boxes but to continue the motivational approach. Sadly, there remain some examiners who are more about stamping authority from the outset and providing a list of what constitutes a fail from the outset, then picking out every tiny detail, where often it may simply be down to differences of approach rather than any real shortcomings in the ride. Standards are there to be upheld, quite rightly, but the approach to getting there is far from uniform within some organisations.
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