RoSPA vs IAM?

[aligar1]

break away

If that's the case - you and your fellow mates could start your own training school to make riders safer on the roads

Reap what you sow and earn some cash from a hobby too

Why let all your volunteered efforts go to someone else at the top of the chain

Well said,Yes start your own club give advice and stop making fat cats fatter.

advanced riding for bikes

 

[autobump]

Would just like to stick my oar in. Somewhere in these post it has been said, where do you go after taking your IAM/RoSPA test?

From my own experience I took my IAM test and then became an observer then a senior. I found that becoming an observer certainly improved my riding, because not only was I looking out for my self, but also what my associate should/was looking at. Then again when I took my seniors it improved again, perhaps not by the same amount, but did go up a notch.

We all could do with a kick up the backside now and again or given a few tips/suggestions with regard to our riding, but it should be with people you can get on with, not a smart arse that winds you up or talks bo88lcks.

Another vote for Hull's Advanced Riding for Bikers

 

[Delboy777]

I went down the IAM route because i didnt have a Rospa group near me. But TBH any form of training is better than none. Bikesafe has been cancelled in Scotland now so myself and another NQO are organising an alternative for peeps who want an insight into Advanced riding. NO CHARGE ! its not a business its a hobby AFAIC.

 

[Micky]

Well said Giles

I'm an examiner for the IAM and it never ceases to amaze me some of the things that are taught by some observers. I would never ever accept the black and white taught by some. Every set of circumstances will be different and require maybe a different approach. We are all different and have different styles ... long may it be so

I once gave a talk and mentioned I had come all the way through Bradford, without stopping, making progress, and never needed to give a shoulder check. An associate later went for his test believing I had said you don't need to give shoulder checks

People have a problem with 'progress' .... progress can be made at 5mph

When I went off on my six month 'Long Way Home' trip with girlfriend Sue, (Russia, Siberia, Mongolia and the Gobi Desert, return via The Stans) the next three associates going for test, to another examiner failed. Excess speed in the Nationals

I have errrr mmmmm ah liberal approach, and have been spoken to by London about it

The official line from London was it was OK to do four or five mph over the national speed limit to nip an overtake off, but not my 8 or 9 mph

FFS speeding is an absolute offence and one mph over is endorsable ....

But we don't have these bikes to prat around at 59.9 mph now do we
I don't have a badge on my jacket or my bike and if I want to be naughty naughty then so be it

I'll probably get a bollocking for this post but I don't give a shit.

 

[Delboy777]

The difference is the IAM world and the real world Micky. On assessment with examiner NO speeding, and out for a bimble different story as long as its safe.

 

[Ogmios]

Another RoSPA DIPstick here with an opinion.
It never ceases to amuse me how much variation there is from Trainer/Observer to Examiner etc.
But Gods help the person that's taken the time, trouble and expense to upgrade their riding skills when it comes to the Test.
My take on it is similar if not the exact same as Giles and Micky, and having ridden with Micky, my view seems accurate
What i do (and i admit to getting malicious pleasure out of it ) when two or more Trainers are gathered (and there shall be a debate ) as to what is "right" is point to the one common thing;
Roadcraft - the book that all of this is based on, whether it be RoSPA or IAM.
The "System" is inflexible / the application of it - i.e. the Rider is the variable. The one with the initiative to decide what is right at that time and place for those conditions.
It's in the application of it that we all have our own way of doing it and as long as it's 'Safe' - it's right. Right?

The times i've set various trainers off among themselves (i'd never do it to someone taking the training) when they insist they are right and the other is wrong - i say "what does it say in Roadcraft?"
it's like winding up clockwork toys and sitting back and watching!

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well said Giles

I'm an examiner for the IAM and it never ceases to amaze me some of the things that are taught by some observers. I would never ever accept the black and white taught by some. Every set of circumstances will be different and require maybe a different approach. We are all different and have different styles ... long may it be so

I once gave a talk and mentioned I had come all the way through Bradford, without stopping, making progress, and never needed to give a shoulder check. An associate later went for his test believing I had said you don't need to give shoulder checks

People have a problem with 'progress' .... progress can be made at 5mph

When I went off on my six month 'Long Way Home' trip with girlfriend Sue, (Russia, Siberia, Mongolia and the Gobi Desert, return via The Stans) the next three associates going for test, to another examiner failed. Excess speed in the Nationals

I have errrr mmmmm ah liberal approach, and have been spoken to by London about it

The official line from London was it was OK to do four or five mph over the national speed limit to nip an overtake off, but not my 8 or 9 mph

FFS speeding is an absolute offence and one mph over is endorsable ....

But we don't have these bikes to prat around at 59.9 mph now do we
I don't have a badge on my jacket or my bike and if I want to be naughty naughty then so be it

I'll probably get a bollocking for this post but I don't give a shit.

If I wanted Advanced Rider training, I'd go out with you for a few hours to be assessed on my bad habits and things I could do better

I respect that you have had a proper valid training programme and over 50 years on bikes, so you're best assess someone's riding ability

The IAM system is too variable, most Observers are amateurs, well meaning and some have great skills - but some don't

I've never had much success when I've had a go at the IAM system of rider training

 

[Delboy777]

Sorry but i disagree with you on the system being "inflexible" its because it IS flexible that it works, your riding plan is contantly changing because the information phase keeps changing...........ergo flexible. If a vehicle pulled out in front of you at a junction would you try to avoid it ? yes you would, because your plan has now changed to take account of the changed information.

 

[aligar1]

Thank you
http://www.themotorbikeclub.co.uk

 

[aligar1]

ARB

Its an interesting thread this one. as far as the IAM/ROSPA arguement goes, we all have a biase one way or the other. My own preference is for ROSPA by the way. What has to be remembered is that they both hope to achieve better drivers/riders, so maybe we shouldnt be too bothered which one we support, and just be glad that we can join either of them. If you cant get on with one, then try the other.
One comment i have heard several times recently is that the local bike examiner isnt very good at explaining things to people (personally i dont think this is the case) so i told them to go for a test elsewhere. Its not rocket science is it ?.
Incidentally there is a third way in the East riding area. A new group has started its called advanced riding for bikers (i think). They will help any one who wants to improve the standard of riding wethter its for the IAM test or the ROSPA one.

Yes you are correct
http://www.themotorbikeclub.co.uk

 

[Ogmios]

Sorry but i disagree with you on the system being "inflexible" its because it IS flexible that it works, your riding plan is contantly changing because the information phase keeps changing...........ergo flexible. If a vehicle pulled out in front of you at a junction would you try to avoid it ? yes you would, because your plan has now changed to take account of the changed information.

I presume you refer to my post
if so, please note;

The "System" is inflexible / the application of it - i.e. the Rider is the variable. The one with the initiative to decide what is right at that time and place for those conditions.

Your post emphasises my point - not disagrees.

 

[Magnet]

I am an IAM bike observer and a Police car instructor. All I do when i'm training an associate or driver is try to make them THINK about what they're doing. You can dress it up however you like, but that's all it's about really, in my opinion.

 

[(RIP) andrewgsadv]

Magnet,
Like your thinking,

Driving is actually a mainly thinking task.

When the thinking is right, the right actions will follow.

Not my idea, taken from Stephen Haleys excellent book Mind Driving.

Don't think teaching should be rigid, Fluid is a better way, from the thinking part of brain.

 

[Micky]

I am an IAM bike observer and a Police car instructor. All I do when i'm training an associate or driver is try to make them THINK about what they're doing. You can dress it up however you like, but that's all it's about really, in my opinion.

Amidst all my years of riding, training, riding professionally, all I ever ask, all I ever do, is to ask folk to question, to think about, what they are doing, why, how can I get hurt here? Every moment in the saddle we should be analysing, thinking, questioning .... "How can I get hurt here?" How can I make this easier? How can I make this smoother?

Make it easier, make it smoother, no sweepy swoopy and you're soooo much quicker



Power to your elbow Magnet

 

[skywalker]

Go on Micky - you know you want to throw the "use of the horn" in this debate. Off you go

 

[Gazza1250]

Amidst all my years of riding, training, riding professionally, all I ever ask, all I ever do, is to ask folk to question, to think about, what they are doing,

I started my Rospa training course yesterday and have to agree with you Mickey.I have been riding quite a few years and passed IAM in 2002 but over the years never had any further training.I started feeling that i was riding my bike without a lot of thought or ride planning.
I know it's only week one of a six week course but already i have started thinking again I have a good idea what i should have been doing but often stopped thinking .

 

[(RIP) andrewgsadv]

In an earlier post, liked what Magnet had written. Followed by Mickys post . Thinking is what riding is all about . Anyone wanting to fully understand how we should be using the brainbox , get a copy of the book i mentioned.

Mind Driving, by Stephen Haley.
New Skills for staying alive on the road.

Certainly made me think.


Not on commision.

Link to book and his site.

http://www.cadence.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=9

 

[MikeP]

This thread has given me some excellent pointers so thanks very much to all those who replied.

My plan of action:

Have a look at the local Bikesafe with a view to getting to know like-minded people and have a look for instructors that can help me get what I want from the training.
Join either IAM or RoSPAR and do the training.
Once a level of training is achieved (no idea what that might be yet), try a bit of mix and match from both organisations and other organisations.

I am already doing some off-road training so keep up with that.


... and ... oh yes, enjoy myself!

I'd seriously consider this:

http://www.maxrider.co.uk/

as an alternative to both IAM/ROSPA.

 

[Ross Dean]

Thanks for the later replies - some useful links. Its good to see that the subject is broadening out and being tackled in different ways.

My partner and I recently joined my local RoSPA group and have begun the training. It is well attended and run by genuine enthusiasts who turn what could be a very dull set of lectures (the initial part of the course) into something interesting.

I am going to take a look at the book mentioned above as, with the best will in the world, Motorcycle Roadcraft turns an exciting activity into very ... systematic reading (health and safety at its best ).

 

[Rod]

To go back to the original question ROSPA or IAM : firstly any training is good.
I did IAM as my local group is very strong & nearby.
However, I feel the ROSPA graded pass system is a better concept.
A lowly pass with IAM is not a very high standard of riding, it's a good starting point, but you still get your green badge, and I suspect too many people are satisfied with that.
I sense with ROSPA people are striving for a Gold, I've never seen a Bronze or Silver badge displayed ( do they exist ?).