RoSPA vs IAM?

[alistairl]

Anyway don't want to start a speed camera debate, but the IAM and ROSPA training look to follow similar principles of roadcraft.

For more bike handling skills the California Superbike School would be my top pick, and at £20 odd quid the Twist of the Wrist 2 DVD offers some really good meterial that of which 90% is applicable to the road.

+1 the thing you will get from IAM / Rospa or Roadcraft based training is how to get as much information as you can from what is out on the road. To take this to its nth degree I would also add advanced car driving - a commentary will help your instructor (tutor/observer) double check what you are doing.

As the police don't have a book for machine control I would look in to this too - California Superbike School for the best track based system, and one of the off-road schools for confidence dealing with slippery stuff.

But really it is attitude - go out to learn from everyone, take something from every school and blend it into something that works for you. Spend as much as you can afford to get this.

A.

 

[Ross Dean]

This thread has given me some excellent pointers so thanks very much to all those who replied.

My plan of action:

Have a look at the local Bikesafe with a view to getting to know like-minded people and have a look for instructors that can help me get what I want from the training.
Join either IAM or RoSPAR and do the training.
Once a level of training is achieved (no idea what that might be yet), try a bit of mix and match from both organisations and other organisations.

I am already doing some off-road training so keep up with that.


... and ... oh yes, enjoy myself!

 

[Big Red]

This thread has given me some excellent pointers so thanks very much to all those who replied.

My plan of action:

Have a look at the local Bikesafe with a view to getting to know like-minded people and have a look for instructors that can help me get what I want from the training.
Join either IAM or RoSPAR and do the training.
Once a level of training is achieved (no idea what that might be yet), try a bit of mix and match from both organisations and other organisations.

I am already doing some off-road training so keep up with that.


... and ... oh yes, enjoy myself!

The decision between the IAM and RoSPA will depend on where you live for locality and there are some good and bad groups of each but it's rare.

There is no need to choose RoSPA just for the mandatory three yearly refresher as the IAM offer a rider assessment when you want and I'm sure your local group would offer something similar.
You have the right idea with BikeSafe first and off road training and whichever you choose I'm sure that you'll enjoy it.

 

[T2725]

I went with RoSPA a few years ago and did my 3 year retest last October. Gold again.

I was put off with the IAM fee of £100 and after doing a few rid outs with the local IAM group, I was shocked at standard (poor).

Agree with the above where I have also done CSS levels 1&2 and highly recommend. Also done Hopp Rider days at Cadwell Park which were good fun.

RoSPA changed my riding for the better in every possible way including enjoyment and would highly recommend to everyone.

 

[Mr D]

I expected this question to have been covered but did a quick search and found nothing specific so ...

I want (and need!) to get some sound advanced riding training. I passed my test some five years ago and have covered over 50,000 miles since on six bikes. My riding has deteriorated and its time for some training.

I quite fancy RoSPA as there is a requirement for a re-examination every three years but have also heard good things about the IAM scheme.

Any thoughts?

.

Ross.

Read your question and all the responses. As a current trainer and IAM Observer the answers are good and sound. Really helps to go along and if you gel with the group you will progress. You can always change observer.

However I think the basic philosophy of RoSPA in having bronze silver and gold awards which need renewing every 3 years encourages members to achieve the highest level and to keepn their skill levels high. I have encountered some IAM members who have passed their advanced test then rest on their laurels.

Mr D

 

[Rasher]

I have encountered some IAM members who have passed their advanced test then rest on their laurels.

Like me

Not sure much more you can do once you have passed the test, I still apply what I learnt on each ride and personally cannot see much point in re-testing every 3 years.

I also think these tests are a bit subjective, on mine I was mainly 2's on the scorecard, but another tester may have scored me a bit better or a bit worse and with 3 "passes" on the ROSPA system I could see someone riding very well and getting a Bronze and maybe someone not quite so good getting a Silver.

I think the important thing is to take the training and get as much as you can from it, use what works for you and self asses on each ride as opposed to rocking up every 3 years and brushing up to pass a test - it is still the same test you already passsed.

I would rather look at other training I have not taken such as on-track / off-road / and the non IAM / OSPA road based one to one training out there where you may pick up new skills and ideas.

I can always re-read my IAM book to make sure I am not slipping backwards.

 

[Mivk7576]

Anyone interested in doing the ROSPA training and test in the North west of UK please take a look...

http://www.facebook.com/RoadarMerseyside
http://www.roadarmerseyside.org.uk/riders-index.php

 

[aligar1]

http://www.themotorbikeclub.co.uk
Worth a look

 

[Delboy777]

There is nothing stopping you from doing both as you never stop learning and there is no such thing as the perfect ride. The important thing is you have recognised that your riding has deteriorated and your need for advanced training is necessary.

Good luck

Cliff

i agree, but IAM biased......................

 

[Delboy777]

...... Some peepes complain that one observer suggested this, while another suggested that. That one had this style, but the other had that style..

Going out with good but maybe slightly different styles is also useful. Rather than seeing it as confusing, pick the good bits you like from this guy, and the good bits you like from that guy ....

Soak it all up ...

This has been the problem in the past, so hence the new Local and National Observer qualifications which have just been introduced. Launched to get all observers singing from the same sheet so to speak. They are IMI accredited and you need to spend four hours with a IAM Staff examiner and achieve a F1RST or better to qualify. Region 6, Scotland and region 2 SE England did the pilot last year. Im not blowing my own trumpet but i gained "National Observer" standard,the equivalent the old "Senior Observer", which has now been done away with, but will stay until candidates do the local or national assessment.

 

[Littledumptruck]

This has been the problem in the past, so hence the new Local and National Observer qualifications which have just been introduced. Launched to get all observers singing from the same sheet so to speak. They are IMI accredited and you need to spend four hours with a IAM Staff examiner and achieve a F1RST or better to qualify. Region 6, Scotland and region 2 SE England did the pilot last year. Im not blowing my own trumpet but i gained "National Observer" standard,the equivalent the old "Senior Observer", which has now been done away with, but will stay until candidates do the local or national assessment.

Having observed for over 10 years, it'll never work.... Only one way to improve IAM, raised the pass standard. Simple as that. When the poor groups just get fails, IAM will know here to go and help out.
Our group sent three guys for national observer training, their feedback was a fecking joke. One of our guys was on a blade, got told off for not, I repeat...Not, hanging off in the bends. This from a so called senior of Iams choosing to help run the course. Another got told he was only allowed an extra 5% of his speed on overtakes. Nothing to do with speeding, if the cars doing 40, he was told only 44 to overtake, even in 60 limits. I'm not joking, this so called senior even demonstrated it, taking a mile to pass a slow car. We had similar experiences with senior observer training.

HOWEVER,
As for advanced riding, I always say, any is better than none. Both IAM and Rospa have good and bad groups. Wherever you are go with whatever you can find, try it out, if you don't like it, go to the next option. Police run 'better riding' days can be good fun, they can pick out one or two bad faults, but will NEVER make anyone a proper advanced rider, it takes time to change a bad habit into a permanent good habit. Most police days will guide you into a local group of some sort.
Open mind, commit some time to it, enjoy.
(Apologies if I've repeated something already said)

 

[Delboy777]

Having observed for over 10 years, it'll never work.... Only one way to improve IAM, raised the pass standard. Simple as that. When the poor groups just get fails, IAM will know here to go and help out.
Our group sent three guys for national observer training, their feedback was a fecking joke. One of our guys was on a blade, got told off for not, I repeat...Not, hanging off in the bends. This from a so called senior of Iams choosing to help run the course. Another got told he was only allowed an extra 5% of his speed on overtakes. Nothing to do with speeding, if the cars doing 40, he was told only 44 to overtake, even in 60 limits. I'm not joking, this so called senior even demonstrated it, taking a mile to pass a slow car. We had similar experiences with senior observer training.

HOWEVER,
As for advanced riding, I always say, any is better than none. Both IAM and Rospa have good and bad groups. Wherever you are go with whatever you can find, try it out, if you don't like it, go to the next option. Police run 'better riding' days can be good fun, they can pick out one or two bad faults, but will NEVER make anyone a proper advanced rider, it takes time to change a bad habit into a permanent good habit. Most police days will guide you into a local group of some sort.
Open mind, commit some time to it, enjoy.
(Apologies if I've repeated something already said)

This is exactly what the IAM are trying to stamp out with the new IMI accredited awards. You either make the grade or you dont observe, and thats that. Far too many "senior observers" who should have stopped years ago are still passing on duff info (i don't mean you BTW) Object being a uniform standard all over the UK. We also have a training team, R6TT, who's remit is to maintain the standard with regular checks on the Local and National Observers. I think given a little time the chaff will be separated from the wheat and things will be better.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Are the owners of IAM still making a good living out of it, whilst all the faithful volunteer motorcyclists give up their spare time, just for the craic and a few quid of petrol money?

I seem to recall it was a nice little earner - perfect buisness model

 

[Delboy777]

Are the owners of IAM still making a good living out of it, whilst all the faithful volunteer motorcyclists give up their spare time, just for the craic and a few quid of petrol money?

I seem to recall it was a nice little earner - perfect buisness model

Unfortunately yes

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Unfortunately yes

.................and yet you still subscribe to the fold

 

[Delboy777]

.................and yet you still subscribe to the fold

Yes i do, because i think trying to have "safer" riders on the road is a good thing.If i can help just a little then thats good enough for me, its just what i do I dont drink or smoke and i love being out on my bike so what better combination ?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Yes i do, because i think trying to have "safer" riders on the road is a good thing.If i can help just a little then thats good enough for me, its just what i do I dont drink or smoke and i love being out on my bike so what better combination ?

If that's the case - you and your fellow mates could start your own training school to make riders safer on the roads

Reap what you sow and earn some cash from a hobby too

Why let all your volunteered efforts go to someone else at the top of the chain

 

[stever1]

Its an interesting thread this one. as far as the IAM/ROSPA arguement goes, we all have a biase one way or the other. My own preference is for ROSPA by the way. What has to be remembered is that they both hope to achieve better drivers/riders, so maybe we shouldnt be too bothered which one we support, and just be glad that we can join either of them. If you cant get on with one, then try the other.
One comment i have heard several times recently is that the local bike examiner isnt very good at explaining things to people (personally i dont think this is the case) so i told them to go for a test elsewhere. Its not rocket science is it ?.
Incidentally there is a third way in the East riding area. A new group has started its called advanced riding for bikers (i think). They will help any one who wants to improve the standard of riding wethter its for the IAM test or the ROSPA one.

 

[ymfb]

I did the IAM skill for life programme and passed in 2006, however, my observers were obsessed with making progress to the point that it spoiled the ride. They had a poor social/Rideout calendar so along with others there was no post test involvement and the group folded.

About 2-1/2 years ago I was introduced to my local RoSPA group, what a difference. We have toured overseas and are involved so much more. I am now training to be a tutor.

I think this only proves that as long as your observer and local group are good you should enjoy the training. If the IAM do start or are considering, grading and re-testing it shows that RoSPA are doing it right.

Checkout the groups and go with your gut feeling.

 

[Giles]

Checkout the groups and go with your gut feeling.

Absolutely

The problem you've got is that we are all individuals, we all have our little character traits and we all interpret things in our own way.

Are you, the reader, naturally a bit lassez faire about life? Or are you somebody who enjoys the fine print in rules and regulations? Is your idea of a national speed limit 60 (with maybe a little bit over to make an overtake) or is it one of 'i'm not on test so as long as I don't get caught I'll go as quick as is sensible and safe and maybe hit the odd three figures' ?

And bloody hell - we haven't even touched on interpreting the black art of any roadcraft stuff.

If I go somewhere with four or five work colleagues in out neat little formation on the road - yer think we're all braking and changing gear in exactly the same point on the road? Some will come off the motorway, up the slip in 6th and brake ..brake ..brake .. take their gears .. nail it onto the roundabout.
Some others will take a fifth at the bottom of the slip, scan the roundabout as they're approaching it, take a fourth halfway up the slip ... etc etc. You get my gist. Is the black and white systemised way not only right but the only way it should be done? What's wrong with taking a gears as I approach the roundabout as long as I actually use them??

So the bottom line is, that life on a bike is a thousand shades of grey, some will be so anal about their interpretation of it that their riding becomes, quite frankly ridiculous. (The Blackbird rider who remained in third gear for 99% of his test because 'roadcraft says select a responsive gear' The odd story of riders standing up on their pegs to see over the hedge rows )

And ... in this mix yer gonna throw the examiners So again, some will be pretty chilled about life and as long as it's safe and has a bit of style and panache they're happy, others are sticklers for the rules - I heard of one examiner that failed a student (somewhere oop north) because his mirror (stalked mirror on his handlebar) had crossed a double white line system.
I mean FFS .... is it any wonder some clubs get a bad name

Find a club that suites you and your style, step back a bit from the old what's right, whats wrong magnifying glass and understand that coppers, examiners, observers all have slightly different styles and interpretations, and long may that continue.