Samaratans

[monkeyboy]

I'm seriously thinking of committing GSuside at the moment.

I just got it back on the road and it ran perfectly for about a month then the other day something happened and now its well back into b'stard mode with rough running and farting about.

It pops all the time on the overrun. It WAS just sort of dicking about between 2-3k on a constant throttle but now its dropping out and coming back and often sort of giving a kick through the throttle when I (try) holding constant revs as it cuts out for a sec.

So today I have (one at a time) swapped the temp sensor, the lambda, the hall sensor, the ECU, the plugs and the injectors. None of which has changed anything.

I know we all go through this time and again but what else, bar some random loom breakdown, could anyone suggest to keep the petrol can and match away from this bike?

I'm totally fed up today so I'm not going to try anything else. Especially in this heat when my temper might mean me dishing out random, rubber hammer justice on my machine if I'm not careful!

I doubt its fuel filter as it seems to just drop out electrically if that makes sense. It's obviously getting plenty anyway, maybe too much as it's popping and farting on the overrun.

I've sprayed the inlets with WD40 to check for air leaks - no difference. Could be the coil but I would expect that to either work or not.

I've had this bike for 90k and TBH it's been really yin/yang. I've done some lovely long trips away but in the UK I've had so much trouble with the bloody thing. I don't like to give up though and I want this back and fixed as it's supposed to be taking me overland to Bangkok in a year.

Any and all help and suggestions appreciated. Ta

 

[MikeO]

Can you give the exact type and spec? ie 850/1100/1150 - exhaust? Cat? Any additional performance bits (Power Commander etc)? Single or twin-spark? Original or remapped chip?

Are the parts you swapped IN known to be good? Did you test the bike between each individual part swap, or do them all then retest?

What issues have you had with it in the past and how have you overcome them?

Mike

 

[monkeyboy]

1150 GSA Single spark 2002. 100k

What problems.... the list is probably too long! I had a 'looming hell' thread about the problems I was having before. In the past I've changed pretty well the whole ignition system to sort out some rough and inconsistent running. All the usual injectors/TPS/Coil/Temp sensor/halls/ECU/HT leads/plugs and a new (2nd hand) loom too. Is was running fine for a while again including a big 20k in south america. The cam chains were making a racket - changed the tensioners, then the chains to fix that and they're nice and quiet.

I put some fuel in the other day and about 1/2 mile later I felt it start to feel different. It was a brand new fuel station so I thought I may have picked up some crap or flush fluids or alike but Ive put a few tanks through and it's not got better, it's just getting worse. I'll order a new filter this week and fit that next weekend but the engine is running weird. Its fine on tickover, it's all balanced and the tappets are fine. Hold it at 2 or 3 k and it sounds a bit rich (though the plugs are lovely and grey) but it just falters every so often and kicks back through the thottle. The fueling on a constant throttle, especially between 2-3 k is very 'on/off' and uncomfortable.

I've changed things one at a time and run the engine and nothing has an effect it seems. I'll let it cool down and take it for another road test later but I know it's still there.

I've taken the bits off an R1100S (apart from the ECU) that was (and always has, lovely old thing) run properly without any of this, except for the usual ignition switch lead fault.

I'll fix pretty well anything if I can find the fliipin fault!

 

[david a hall]

Bit of water in the tank?

 

[monkeyboy]

Bit of water in the tank?

Hadn't thought of that. Been quite a bit of fuel through it since, and it seems to be getting worse. Would that not effect it all the time? It seems OK 70%

I'll get a new filter, empty out the tank completely and see if that helps. It did seem to start quite obviously about 1/2 mile after filling up. I'll order a pack of straws to clutch at too

 

[Blasterwizard]

Bit of water in the tank?

+1

Something similiar happened to me. Dry tank, refill and put some cleaner for the gas circuit (fuel pump, injectors..) Give a long round (may be half tank), and if in that riding works right, and in following rides it goes worse, that might indicate that it´s drinking water for some place.

I had the problem that the drain tube in the gas fill cup was blocked, so after the rain, wen I opened to fill gas, the water that was there felt in the tank, making the bike going rough sometimes.

 

[warmshed]

Hi, On a car the air mass sensor can cause this type of fault, not sure how it affects the running on the 1150.

Again, on cars you can unplug the air mass sensor and the ECU will revert to a pre programmed set up that may not be the best but will stop the hesitation if it is being caused by the sensor. It is not fool proof but worth a go if someone on here can confirm the 1150 ECU will respond in this way. Might be worth a try. Dave

 

[MikeO]

I'd definitely be looking at the fuel filter, given that history.

If it has been contaminated, whether by water or something else, it's probably broken down internally and isn't giving the flow rate the pump & injectors need.

It sounds like you do a reasonable number of miles - I'd consider repositioning the filter outside the tank...

Mike

 

[monkeyboy]

Thanks all.

Yep - maybe I should fit an external filter I know. I don't change them very often to be fair. I'll read up on it.

Re the Lamda - I forgot to do that, thanks. I will run it disconnected to and let it use the emergency map if the filter doesn't do the trick.

Either way I'm going to avoid the new petrol station for a few months until its well and truly flushed.

 

[bowser]

+1 for the fuel filter, mine was running fine, had to take the tank off to sort out some electrics underneath, so it came of put to one side for a couple of days and when I put it back it was a complete pig wouldnt run etc etc very similar to your symptons. Sombody suggested changing the fuel filter and bobs your uncle all was fine, only took about half an hour to do, and just for the cost of a filter and tank gaskets.

 

[warmshed]

Thanks all.

Yep - maybe I should fit an external filter I know. I don't change them very often to be fair. I'll read up on it.

Re the Lamda - I forgot to do that, thanks. I will run it disconnected to and let it use the emergency map if the filter doesn't do the trick.

Either way I'm going to avoid the new petrol station for a few months until its well and truly flushed.

The lamda sensor is not the air mass sensor, the lamda is in the exhaust the air mass sensor is in the airbox/inlet I believe., I dont think the lamda sensor will give the symptoms you have.

 

[MikeO]

Thanks all.

Yep - maybe I should fit an external filter I know. I don't change them very often to be fair. I'll read up on it.

Re the Lamda - I forgot to do that, thanks. I will run it disconnected to and let it use the emergency map if the filter doesn't do the trick.

Either way I'm going to avoid the new petrol station for a few months until its well and truly flushed.

Top tip - get yourself spare fuel cap and pump plate O rings - the ones you have fitted will have expanded. Fit the new ones and keep the old ones, which will gradually shrink back to their normal size...

 

[MikeO]

I'm totally fed up today so I'm not going to try anything else.

VERY smart move, by the way...

Mike

 

[monkeyboy]

The lamda sensor is not the air mass sensor, the lamda is in the exhaust the air mass sensor is in the airbox/inlet I believe., I dont think the lamda sensor will give the symptoms you have.

Right - I changed the air box sensor yesterday too, just forgot to mention it! O thought it was just an air temp sensor? It's just looks like a black nipple thats been pulled really hard I'll run with that disconnected too if all else fails.

Filter first.... I've got a couple of spare big black rubber (careful) tank seals somewhere...

 

[warmshed]

Right - I changed the air box sensor yesterday too, just forgot to mention it! O thought it was just an air temp sensor? It's just looks like a black nipple thats been pulled really hard I'll run with that disconnected too if all else fails.

Filter first.... I've got a couple of spare big black rubber (careful) tank seals somewhere...

I had a bit of time to check and the 1150 does not have a mass air flow sensor, just the air temperature, sorry if I mislead you, as mentioned it is a common fault on cars. Best of luck with your faulting, looking forward to hearing the cure might save people a lot of time in the future.

 

[Judgeged]

My thoughts

If the bike is ok on tick over but rough off tick over does it not indicate an injector problem poss lambda sensor faulty ( ie not sensing correct gasses and signalling changes that are not necessary ) poss bikes running lean then rich might cause back fires, popping on over run is almost always exhaust related, air sucking in usually. Just a thought for you to mull over along with the 1000 other thoughts you have lol

 

[monkeyboy]

Fitted the new filter today. The old one still had the BMW clips on so it's obviously never been changed I must have got mixed up with what I'd done to which bike Still, it's only done 100k including big trips in Africa and South America and the fuel is all fine I'm sure... Didn't look bad to me at all anyway

So - started it up and went into town. Worse, much much worse now. Bloody thing is all over the place on/off throttle and constant throttle. Accelerating is fine, decelerating is noisy. The bike just seems to sound more 'farty' generally. It's surging back and forth and it's very uncomfortable to ride.

So, I got back and disconnected the lambda. I had tried another I had knocking about in the garage of unknown origin but it hadn't helped so I thought I'd try without.

Different bike completely. Still not 100% obviously but no surging and holds a constant throttle and the low speed fueling especially is much much better.

So, it's either the lambda, or there is some exhaust problem but my betting is the lambda. I think it's only about 40k old but it has been exposed to some dodgy fuel over that time I'm sure. I'm convinced the cable routing close to the engine isn't good either with all the heat synching.

I'm guessing the bike is just running off a default map as it is now. I plan to ride it for a couple of days to see if it's consistently better. Does anyone have any opinion on that? The lambda is obviously important, but maybe more for emissions. I've got a Y-Piece so no cat to worry about.

Anyone got any Lambda recommendations? I think there are a few options and I got an NGK one last time I think.

 

[dunnie]

Throttle cable

Have you checked the throttle cable housing on the right hand side near the head? It is easy to unseat this cable and make the bike run like a due tuned Sherman tank, mines done it loads. If I knew how to load a photo of it I would.

 

[monkeyboy]

Have you checked the throttle cable housing on the right hand side near the head? It is easy to unseat this cable and make the bike run like a due tuned Sherman tank, mines done it loads. If I knew how to load a photo of it I would.

Its defo no that thanks mate I wish it was that simple & cheap