Suggest me some advanced training

  • Thread starter Thread starter Taro
  • Start date Start date
Don't do both!

Thanks for the links. Due to scheduling difficulties I can't do IAM this year (with the Bristol Group anyway but they're close to me so it'd be logical to meet with them) but I've signed up for both Bikesafe and Ride to Arrive. From the info I've had so far these both seem fairly similar, how do they differ in practice?

I've not been involved with Ride to Arrive but the format as far as I know is exactly the same. If I'm wrong I'm sure it won't take long to find someone correcting me. :augie I believe the reason that Ride to Arrive exists is that they couldn't get the Bikesafe going in the Bristol area for some reason so Ride to Arrive was born. Again, someone will put me right if this is duff info.:rob

In short, don't do both, just whichever is closest to you.
:thumb2
 
If you are prepared to travel towards Bath

If you really want to do IAM this year and are prepared to meet somewhere east of Keynsham (eg Saltford), WaBAM can take you on (we don't do set courses).

wabam.org.uk

or just pm me
 
they are not worth the money because they are not that much better than going to your local IAM group. They don't give instructions over the intercom. They also use really crap (read: cheap) intercom.

but for similar money this is miles better www.mikewaite.co.uk
1. Use top quality Kenwood receivers with Autocom kit
2. Instructions whilst you ride (I found this was one key feature worth paying for)

Wow. This is one of the few times I've heard somebody not impressed with Rapid.
I was instructed by Jon Taylor. He was working with the IAM to bring up all their examiners to the same level and his CV includes:
'Open 500cc and Production 600cc Championship winner in 1987 including setting a new 600cc Production race record at Brands Hatch ' HERE

I thought him excellent.

No I have no association with Rapid, other than probably still being alive due to 2 days and then later an IAM test with Jon.

IAM is fine too - I did my IAM test through them, but the quality of the observation is patchy, but cheap :augie
 
JT's yer maun.....

Wow. This is one of the few times I've heard somebody not impressed with Rapid.
I was instructed by Jon Taylor. He was working with the IAM to bring up all their examiners to the same level and his CV includes:
'Open 500cc and Production 600cc Championship winner in 1987 including setting a new 600cc Production race record at Brands Hatch ' HERE

I thought him excellent.

No I have no association with Rapid, other than probably still being alive due to 2 days and then later an IAM test with Jon.

IAM is fine too - I did my IAM test through them, but the quality of the observation is patchy, but cheap :augie

JT is the kiddie - but then he is "the Boss" :D (IAM Staff Examiner) :bow
 
FWIW I also consider Rapid to be excellent. I used Andy Morrison twice and Dan Harris earlier this year.

A friend accompanies me on the day with Dan and he also regarded it as excellent, and VFM.
 
If you really want to do IAM this year and are prepared to meet somewhere east of Keynsham (eg Saltford), WaBAM can take you on (we don't do set courses).

wabam.org.uk

or just pm me



no problem getting to Saltford so you'll probably see me there, sounds great

have signed up for both RtA and Bike Safe already (BS only £10 so no loss) but I guess more practice won't do me any harm :)
 
Oops - missed this post

OK Taro, look forward to meeting you sometime.

I'll be interested in your comparison of Bikesafe with Ride to Arrive as well! :thumb
 
JT is the kiddie - but then he is "the Boss" :D (IAM Staff Examiner) :bow

Not sure I or many other IAM observers would agree with that. Since being Staff Examiner he has upset So many groups. I personally won't be renewing my Senior observer status whilst he is involved. Although my local group is so fed up with sending him people we want as seniors to have them thrown back at us, we won't send any more anyway. Our chief has had words with his bosses, and aparently 'they are aware'......

However, don't let this put you off joining your local group, at any time. They all tend to ride/train all year, so no need to leave it till next year. Check your local groups out, they should allow you to pay a couple of visits before demanding you pay up and buy the 'skills for life membership'. This will let you suss them out. Some won't let you out on social rides without a test pass, others will recommend tham as chances to practice. Some will offer fixed length courses with test at the end, but personally i'd look to have a 1-1 observer and test when your ready regardless of time scale(how my local group does it). Fixed length courses might just get you to a test standard, but the only real way to learn proper advanced riding is over time, to change bad habits to good ones that then stay with you year on year. Our group found that when we did a fixed length course, riders that passed at the end very quickly reverted to bad habits again.

A decent Iam group can offer so much more than an expensive one day outfit. A lot will offer club friendliness, and lots of rideout opertunity's. Yes there is an element of flat cap, hi viz brigade, but there will also be a large percentage of normal bikers that just want to ride in a safe, but decent standard of other riders.

Most Iam groups won't use intercoms, Iam actually state we're not allowed to use them for anything but giving directions(left, right, straight on etc) so to be honest they're pretty worthless for us. Quality of reception being a serious issue where any other instructions can lead to disasterous results. We have had guys that have done these one day courses and have felt almost bullied by the instructors shouting instructions whilst the rider is struggling to cope with any nerves and new ideas whilst also trying to ride the bike.

The Police based courses are nearly always worth doing, never hurts to get to know some of the local bike cops:)

I tried to do Rospa a few years ago, but found very few groups about, contacted about 5, but only one came back to me, and when I did get out them, the guy was on a different planet.

But, like others have said, it's an ongoing thing. And whatever you do, you'll enjoy it.
 
Thanks for all that, interesting all this politicking within the ranks...

I'll be doing the IAM thing a bit later in the year once time-off and holidays are sorted out, I'm thinking that slow and incremental improvement is more likely to stick in my brain than a heavy one day session...that said I'm looking forward to doing both Police-based courses

Curiously, in the year or so I've been riding I've never seen a Police motorbike :)
 
Years ago I did a course that was run by the two, yes all of them, motorcycle cops for Cornwall. They were based at Bodmin and I cannot for the life of me remember their names, but off their own backs they set about training the local "yobs on bikes". Me being one of them! This would have been 1981? It was a Tuesday night, right through the summer. Every Tuesday night. I remember because I had to change my milking rota to let me fit in (I was milking cows then).

They gave us classroom teaching in the cop shop at Bodmin, then we went out for an hour or so on the road to put into practise the things drawn on the board. It was way ahead of its time, there were no intercoms or radios or anything. One led, one followed and the guinea pigs did their best to keep up and do what the leader did. After a while we would pull in and have a natter about the section of road just covered and they would explain what they had done when, and why. This was in sections long enough not to be stop start, nor too long to remember. It wasn't a formal training thing, just two young bike coppers determined to do something to help the local accident rate who did this in their spare time. It was not an overtime scam.

Those lessons have stood me in good stead ever since. I expect things have moved on a great deal since then, techniques improved, cornering speeds increased and handling of machines far better than the wobbly framed bikes we had (KH500 in my case!).

I have wondered about finding someone/some course or other to give me a refresher. This topic has been of considerable interest and has given me plenty of information to think about. I think first of I willtry and locate a Bikesafe, just to see what kind of thing is being taught. One area I really would like to improve is my wet weather riding. I still have very little faith in tyres on smooth tarmac in the wet - so if you see a GS wobbling around nearly upright....give me a bit of a break -and a wide berth.:thumb2
 
I did BikeSafe two weeks ago and it was excellent. The day was not that much different from what you describe years ago but probably more relevant to todays road conditions. Emphasis was very much on safety but also on making progress when possible :) We had a dry day, wet weather training would be great for me too but it never rains when you want it to!

Next stage for me is a Rider Performance Day at Castle Combe shortly and then a two-day Ride-to-Arrive course. And then thinking about IAM next year

Very impressed by the Police riders' skills, and it's never a bad thing to make contacts with those who apply the rules :)
 
I did BikeSafe two weeks ago and it was excellent. The day was not that much different from what you describe years ago but probably more relevant to todays road conditions. Emphasis was very much on safety but also on making progress when possible :) We had a dry day, wet weather training would be great for me too but it never rains when you want it to!

Next stage for me is a Rider Performance Day at Castle Combe shortly and then a two-day Ride-to-Arrive course. And then thinking about IAM next year

Very impressed by the Police riders' skills, and it's never a bad thing to make contacts with those who apply the rules :)

I totally echo the bikesafe comments - glad you enjoyed it mate. One of my best days ever on a bike, two of us numpties following a liveried copper on his marked Pan around the wilds of Essex. Strangely, every car we came across on that particular day drove meticulously well. :rolleyes: We were also "allowed" to park on the dubya yellows outside the caf in Burnham at lunchtime.:eek

And they're all suprisingly realistic about what happens in the real world hence their desire to show us how to survive and enjoy at the same time. I guess they see it as hopefully one less muppet to scrape off the tarmac through lack of riding skill and awareness.:D
 
Absolutely agree, the last thing the nice Polis man said to us was, 'remember you've been riding in a bubble today'. Riding around with a constant Police escort does make everyone else be very nice to you :)

Also made me think though that some of the positions they adopt on the road they only get away with because they're in full livery
 
I've also contacted Bikesafe and Ride to Arrive, are these worth doing?

Yes and yes (being that they are both the same thing).

IAM I'm intending to do too being very aware that training is always an ongoing thing, anyone here from the Bristol group?

Yes, I'm a member at Bristol Advanced Motorcylists and Middlesex Advanced. In addition I am an observer at Wilts & Bath Advnade. From personal experience I have found most IAM groups being much the same (that is formed of volunteers with the best intentions, but not always the best in terms of quality). You will achieve an advanced test "pass" although there is very little in the way of continuation training beyond that point. IAM observer "training" is patchy at best (particularly in the case of the Bristol group - if you are wanting development beyond the standard required by the, fairly elementary, IAM test I would suggest RoSPA and/or Wilts & Bath Advanced - IAM).

IAM has its place (as does RoSPA, it offering a compulsory 3 year retest), however it (along with other voluntary sector guidance) cannot compete with full time commercial training. The Police will obviously corner the market in terms of experience, though putting that experience into words that real human beings can understand is the key (which is occasionally missed by the blue light brigade!!).

Being a motorcycle instructor by trade I am duty bound to mention the Enhanced Rider Scheme; offered by most training shools, approved by the DSA, offers a certificate on completion that can give insurance discounts, to be used as a stepping stone to the advanced course.

PM for more details on any of these options :)
 


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