Turning your 2610 into a BMW Navigator II - check this out

mrTickle

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If you've seen the BMW Navigator II GPS, you'll know its got an extra keypad on the left hand side of it. You'll also know that BMW aren't flogging the keypad to standard 2610 owners.

Well these guys are - and a whole lot else - bluetooth voice guidance. Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the English translation.

http://www.gps-garmin.nl/body_perfect_pilot.html
 
Whoa! That didn’t take long did it! Bluetooth, music input AND the extra buttons.

I did a short review on the Vemar Bluetooth helmet for the Motobins forum, here’s a link to that thread.
Vemar Bluetooth helmet
 
Just a comment here to prevent confusion:

1) The BMW Navigator II hardware is now available at retail, this equipment is manufactured by Garmin and sold through BMW.

2) The proposed Dutch product ("PerfectPilot") is still at the conceptual stage, if it goes ahead it will be manufactured (I presume) by the Dutch company that is promoting it, and distributed by them.

So, not to confuse the two.
 
PanEuropean said:
Just a comment here to prevent confusion:

1) The BMW Navigator II hardware is now available at retail, this equipment is manufactured by Garmin and sold through BMW.

2) The proposed Dutch product ("PerfectPilot") is still at the conceptual stage, if it goes ahead it will be manufactured (I presume) by the Dutch company that is promoting it, and distributed by them.

So, not to confuse the two.

Pan European/ Max Power

I think you should declare yourself.

Your threads are very interesting and informative, including those on your own web site as are the countries that you visit and miles covered....

...Toronto, Zurich, Norway, Poland, Ireland....

... and a very, very detailed understanding of the Garmin units

... I do however perceive a slight leaning towards Garmin (and IBM) not that I am in anyway providing a parrallel to Hutton.....

... you do have a tendency to castigate any potential competitor to Garmin and whilst at the moment Garmin is maintaining a lead the gap is narrowing and alternates are becoming more "interesting".

Yes, most products start as vapourware... as I am sure did the 2610

Personally I would like to see an alternate to the Garmin units and these are starting to arrive but not yet in the motorcycle world... I believe that a level of competition will ensure that Garmin to perform in the future.
 
Garmin v rest

When the competition catch up with Garmin, they'll be of and producing something even better. I've used GPSR's from the Garmin 55 for the last twelve odd years, and much as it grates they seem to keep more than one step of the competition. Just like Nokia they seem to be the ones who make the standard for everyone else to aspire to.

Like everyone else I might not be too happy with their prices, but they do seem to keep on producing the goods. And for that I guess we keep on paying them. Still £100 for an update that doesn't include a motorway that has been making the news in the UK for the last few months, seems a little careless on the PR front, even if it is someonelses problem.

And if someone comes up with functionality of a 1900 euro unit for at lot less, then I'll be interested.
 
Re: Garmin v rest

John Armstrong said:
....much as it grates they seem to keep more than one step of the competition. Just like Nokia they seem to be the ones who make the standard for everyone else to aspire to.

Like everyone else I might not be too happy with their prices, but they do seem to keep on producing the goods. And for that I guess we keep on paying them. Still £100 for an update that doesn't include a motorway that has been making the news in the UK for the last few months, seems a little careless on the PR front, even if it is someonelses problem.

I agree almost in everything you say. I have tried multiple mobiles since Nokia (Samsung, Motorola, Siemens, Sony-Erricson) but none have matched upto the simplicity and intuitive approach from Nokia (though I am standardising on Siemens as it links into my home DECT system).

The same with Microsoft. I don't appreciate their abuse of the market but they do actually come up with the goods....

Garmin however do not seem to have the same feel for their user base and that is a mistake.

I too am resentful at having to pay £100 plus for an update which is poor in functionality, has a clumsy interface and inability to keep uptodate with current cartography.

Competition would do Garmin good, well probably not, but even more important it would help the consumer...
 
The Mapsource PC user interface, while not as intuitive as most PC applications, is also not bad.
Have you used the Magellan products ? Not good

As regards mapping; this is expensive to do and very expensive to do well. There are only a few players in the mapping market because of this.
Garmin is not a mapping producer. They have to buy what they can while trying to negoiate the quality and quantity up and the prices down.

I agree that none of the mapping vendors have an intelligent way of accepting the very precise track logs and waypoints that we can give them to correct their products.
 
Re: Re: Garmin v rest

AdamZ said:
I too am resentful at having to pay £100 plus for an update which is poor in functionality, has a clumsy interface and inability to keep uptodate with current cartography.
Sadly you cannot blame Garmin for the mapping as they buy it in, (or more likely lease or pay royalties for it. Up to date mapping in Europe costs serious money.
European mapping unlike America is in the hands of governments and corporate companies who like the smell of money. And that's not likely to change.

john
 
Adam wrote: PanEuropean: I think you should declare yourself...
Hi Adam - Sure, reasonable question, here is the declaration:

I'm an aircraft pilot by profession. I first became aware of Garmin products when I was involved in the purchase of a large quantity of Garmin avionics for a fleet of aircraft. I was quite impressed with the capabilities of the avionics (Garmin 430 and 530 panel mount units), and this led me to look at getting a GPS for my motorcycle, which is a Honda ST1100. I bought a SP III in the spring of 2001.

I do a lot of travel in Europe on the moto (usually ship it over by air freight, once shipped it to the UK by boat), and when I began using the SP III in Europe in 2001, I noticed some things I thought could be improved - cartography issues, and things like how the GPS handles direction through roundabouts, how to improve it for moto-riders, etc. So, I wrote some of these comments down and sent them to Garmin. Eventually, we developed a correspondence, and I started beta-testing software. I was riding 2,000 km a week, so this was pretty easy to do, and I really enjoyed doing it - it is a nice break from my day job of flying planes and training pilots. Last summer, the folks I correspond with asked me if I would help test the SP 26xx in a moto environment, and I agreed. Everything I do is always as a volunteer, I receive no payment or consideration in any form.

Sure, I have a preference for Garmin units. I like the functionality they offer. More than that, I really like the fact that Garmin listens to both what I suggest, and what other riders suggest, and they subsequently adapt their GPSR's to suit the needs of the motorcycle community.

I have nothing bad to say about any other manufacturer. Truth is, I have not used GPSR's from other manufacturers, other than in an aviation environment. I don't think I have ever written anything down - in this forum or elsewhere - that is critical of another manufacturer's product, unless is is in the context of a plain truth, for example, it's not a good idea to use a PDA GPS on a moto because it is not dust or waterproof.

There are, however, a few things that get under my skin, and perhaps you have noticed this. First, I get annoyed when a company that has proposed to make a new product states that there is a "problem" with the SP26xx that requires their new product - in this case, the reference to the SP 26xx being difficult to use with gloves on. You might have seen my response to that in the post on the My-MC BB (which, by the way, I have no involvement with other than as a contributor - but because that board has a big ST1100 constituency, it's my home board). I remarked there that the SP 26xx worked perfectly well with gloves on, and I knew that because I had done a hell of a lot of riding with gloves on. Heck, I made a post on that BB back in July of 2003 mentioning that my biggest worry about the new SP 26xx was that gloves would be a problem - and later (5,000 km's later), I posted that there were no problems with gloves. Here's the link to the original thread - note the dates when you read it: New Garmin StreetPilot Models Announced

I've got no opinion at all on the company that plans to produce an add-on device, but my belief is that they should promote it on its own merits, not try to suggest that there is a non-existent deficiency that thus requires use of their proposed product.

In my 4th post on this thread, I stated that the BMW Navigator II mount and the proposed new product were not the same thing. This was only to point out to less-experienced readers (riders) that there were two different products being discussed here. The title of this topic (Turning your 2610 into a BMW Navigator II) is not exactly clear about the difference between the two products. There's a lot of readers (lurkers) who still confuse MapSource (the executable) with map CD's - and those are products that have been around for a long time. Here, we're discussing two new products, neither of which is in wide distribution yet.

What else gets under my skin? People bitching about map software prices, and people bragging about "beating the system" dishonestly. Concerning the map software, all Garmin does is purchase cartography data from companies that specialize in producing it, then compile that data in a form that the Garmin GPSR's can read. Garmin is in no way involved in the collection of map data. So, who the heck do you think is influencing the prices??? It's obviously the companies who own the map data, not Garmin. They are the ones who set the price at which they sell the data to Garmin. Want proof? Just go to a VW dealer, Mercedes dealer, or BMW dealer, and price the cost of a new map upgrade for one of the OEM auto systems. It will be a hell of a lot more money than the Garmin upgrade for the same region, that is for sure. I am sure the people at Garmin are even more upset at errors and omissions in the map products than we are, because it's Garmin people think of when they are unhappy with a map, not the company that supplied the data (NavTech, eTak, DTMI Spatial, whomever).

About "beating the system, dishonestly" - I read a post here by someone who stated (and I quote): "To get around this problem, I bought a U.K SPIII for £ 499 & registered it. This let me use the European City Navigator software supplied with it, on my 2610 (Garmin let you unlock a second GPS unit for no additional charge ). I then sold the SPIII and actually made a little profit from it. As a bonus, I'm entitled to the City Navigator V6 upgrade."

Well, Excuse Me. Read the policies on the Garmin web page about getting a second unlock code. It's pretty clear - "Your MapSource coupon code is valid for use with your own GARMIN GPS unit. If you own two GARMIN GPS units, you are allowed to obtain a second unlock code for the same region at no additional charge. Simply repeat the unlock process for the second unit. This agreement provides a one-user license, and it is illegal to share this data with others. (Here's the link: MapSource Unlock Policies).

Why does that piss me off? Because if enough people decide to obtain a 2nd unlock code and resell it, which is exactly what Garmin makes clear the free unlock policy does not permit, then Garmin is going to stop providing 2nd unlocks to people who actually own and use two GPSR's (usually, one marine unit and one automotive, or one aviation unit and one automotive). I'm in the group that legitimately owns two GPSR's, and I don't want to see Garmin stop extending the policy of a free second unlock to me because too many other people are abusing the system - then going on a public BB and bragging about how to do it.

Well - you asked for it, that's my declaration. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and I've tried to be pretty circumspect with my remarks in the 65 previous posts I've made. The only reason I joined this board is because it looks like there are a lot of moto enthusiasts here with above-average knowledge of GPS use on motorcycles, and also because I think my next moto (when I get rid of my ST) will be a BMW, and I might need to get some advice from you folks about which one to choose. So, I figured it might make sense to contribute something first (GPS knowledge), then ask for your BMW knowledge later on.

PanEuropean
 
and I might need to get some advice from you folks about which one to choose. So, I figured it might make sense to contribute something first (GPS knowledge), then ask for your BMW knowledge later on.
Well, thanks for declaring yourself Pan, but surly you don’t think you need to pay in advance for help on this forum, anyhow, it probably wouldn’t help much cos only UKGPS’ers come to here :)

Lets have a moan about Microsoft MapPoint 2004, Looks great, routes great, wont upload to my Streetpilot and costs £251 at Amazon UK
 
PanEuropean said:
.... Read the policies on the Garmin web page about getting a second unlock code. It's pretty clear - "Your MapSource coupon code is valid for use with your own GARMIN GPS unit. If you own two GARMIN GPS units, you are allowed to obtain a second unlock code for the same region at no additional charge. Simply repeat the unlock process for the second unit. This agreement provides a one-user license, and it is illegal to share this data with others. (Here's the link: MapSource Unlock Policies).

PanEuropean

Thanks Pan.

Actually the information provided on the web site has no enforcement in law. It is on the Web site and the web site is not supplied when you purchase the produced and/or install.

In the main the following applies to Mapsource CN Australia...

The key controls (at least for CN Australia) are the License terms you must accept when you install the product on your computer. That requires positive acceptance even though few people ever read it.... it is 6 A4 pages long (Arial 12pt)!!!!

I note that in Mapsource CN Europe 4.0 there is no flash screen so for the license conditions you need to revert to the documentation supplied by BMW if you bought with the Navigator.

But Garmin do not comply with their own license..

1) The license allows transfer of the Mapsource to another user (with conditions). Garmin do not provide facility to transfer that license of Mapsource. On questioning them regarding this they indicated that it was not possible to remove an unlocked Garmin Unit

2). The CN Australia license allows for you to use the Mapsource product " 2.1 You may: (a) use the Data in the CD-ROM with any compatible GARMIN Unit". There is no mention in the Garmin section of license (see later) of a restriction. So why the Garmin enforced two unit unlock restriction?

It should be noted that the license conditions vary according to the Mapsource product purchased, relate to MapSource and not to Garmin units and are, in some cases under the jurisdiction of the courts of two different countries at the same time.

In the Case of CN Australia they are governed by:

"9. General .... This License shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Kansas, United States of America"

"8.3 This agreement shall be governed by the lows (sic) in force in Victoria." (I know Victorians are pretty low beasts but it is not fair to put it in print!!!

This is futher confused by have two providors of "License" - one by Garmin and the other by Telstra (hence the two courts of jurisdiction)

I fully accept that Garmin make no offer of automatic updates:

"4.2 Following the provision of the initial Data, you may be offered subsequent updates at the price and on the terms and conditions determined by the Licensor from time to time." though I am not sure if this is Garmin of Telstra.... and it was BM who offered auto updates on the Navigator not Garmin

The BM License for Mapsource (in the manual page 4) is far smaller, with one court but NO restriction on number of units and nothing about updates...
 
PanEuropean said:
Adam: You asked for a 'declaration', I gave you that. I won't give you a debate. Goodbye.

Pan,

Thats fine I did ask for a declaration and you did provide one.

...and also a lot of other stuff

Agreed you don't need to get into a debate.

That is your choice but when you castigate someone for supposed abuse of licensing rules or express an opinion regarding the rights of use of software then be prepared for an answer or a differing opinion.
 


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