Twice Bitten - now very relucatant to get back on the horse

[judge]

A friend who doesn't do forums cos he works all hours owns and rides an '06 1200 ADV.

Twice now he has suffered a total power loss at speed on a motorway forcing him to get the bike over to the hard shoulder with only 'glider' controls to get him there.

After the last occasion and the same fault has been identified (fuel pump sensor) he is completely and utterly reluctant to get back on the bike and understandably so.

I'm guessing BMW are just replacing a part they KNOW to be faulty or prone to failure rather than fitting something which has been improved/revised to make for a safer part.

What he doesn't want to hear from his servicing dealer is "you do realise your bike is 1 month outside of its warranty and you haven't used BMW dealers for all your servicing" so you will be liable for the repairs and the recovery charge as your BMW assist also lapsed one month ago"

The bike has been serviced of late according to schedule by an independent mechanic and prior to that by BMW dealers.

So how common a problem are we talking here? And are people who experience this experiencing it at the side of the road or in mid-run

This is a serious request for user experiences so if the 11XX v 12XX brigade could leave their stones in the bar please. Thanks

 

[Trippy]

So how common a problem are we talking here? And are people who experience this experiencing it at the side of the road or in mid-run

I cant remember who told me but they or a friend had theirs go whilst on the move in Europe and when the repair guy turned up his van was stuffed full of the required spare part. I think he said that BMW have 2 vans permanatly on the road fixing them as they fail rather than recalling them all.
But I might be wrong.

 

[cookie]

the problem seems to be the location of the pump controller, it sits in a well, usually full of water. the water leaks past a seal & corrodes a connector below, then the pump fails. there may also be an issue with the pumpo just failing on it's own as well.

the same pump is fitted to several other bmw models with virtually no problems. location, location, location.

i think your friend has been quite unlucky having 2 go in full flight.

re: servicing.

he hasn't paid bmw to service it, why should they be expected to be generous in goodwill repairs?

 

[brianmaslen]

Exactly what happened to me, outside lane 90mph and no power. BMW Assist turned up with the part on board as it is a common occurance. At least they carry the part!

 

[judge]

re: servicing.

he hasn't paid bmw to service it, why should they be expected to be generous in goodwill repairs?

My guess is he's a little upset that a bike with a clear design fault has failed twice and left him wondering if he'll ever see his family again. He might also offer the defence that his bike is serviced to book by an ex-employee of a main dealer who services the bike according to the service schedule and neither identified fault can be attributed to the work of the technician who serviced it

I don't think this is an issue on whether he should be prepared to pay rather why perhaps BMW are prepared to allow bikes which have this fault to only replace it with another part that due to the bikes design will likely fail again. But this is the technical section and before cuddly Ken whacks me lets keep to the original request in my opener...

So how common a problem are we talking here? And are people who experience this experiencing it at the side of the road or in mid-run?

 

[cookie]

rightly or wrongly, i can't help thinking that goodwill will be reduced by not having franchised dealer history no matter who the servicing mechanic (technician, pah!) used to work for.

12.5K pump controller still going strong. dealer was concerned at high failure rate, so fitted a new one just in case + gave me the old working one as a spare

now if i can get them to give me a spare ring antenna, i should be ok.

er...and a final drive, and perhaps an engine

 

[brassmonkey001]

I got bitten by an 'orse once and I'm reluctant to get back on one. At least I got my sunglasses back though.

 

[Bazza]

this BMW assist thingy!!!!!! have most 'tossers' who have broken down had a BMW knowledgeable repair man turn up?
cos all the times ive broken down its just a genral car recovery truck who wont touch the bike
is this cos i live in the back of beyond? if so id better start braking down ' daaan saaarth'

 

[Backmarker]

Once bought a BMW, 40k. Clutch failed at 45k (6 months), replaced under warranty. Clutch failed again at 50k (12 months) replaced under warranty. I said, hey, something is wrong here, they said, hey, your warranty has now expired and the new clutch has no warranty because you did not 'buy' it from us, and as it was supplied on the basis that it was an obligation under original 12 month warranty (on bike) that is an end to the matter.

It is not unusual, nor uncommon for manufacturers to behave in this way. Over on my car forum we seem to have an issue over failing (ie breaking) front springs after as little as 18 months. Manufacturer blames uk road 'salt', recalls, and replaces (even for cars well out of warranty). 18 months later the first of the 'new' springs are starting to fail. Seems a warranty recall just meant replacing the 'old' faulty springs with new identical ones.

 

[Backmarker]

rightly or wrongly, i can't help thinking that goodwill will be reduced by not having franchised dealer history no matter who the servicing mechanic (technician, pah!) used to work for.

Technician Pah! Hah! Why would he be a Technician whilst working in a main dealership but 'only' a mechanic if not? Have you seen his kit? More bloody computerised thingies than spanners I'll warant. Dont be such a pompous arrogant moron. Pay Dealer prices for servicing if you want (and I did, and I would, if only the bike came back in a safe state), but hey, dont diss the independent Techs that the rest of us rely on to make our bikes safe 24 hours after the main dealers servicing have left the bolts out of the rear brake calipers, not noticed that the bike was subject to a serious safety recall, not replaced the washers on the front brake disks, or after they semi severed the wiring loom shortcutting a clutch replacement etc etc et al.

I thought I met some bloke called Cookie on a meet once, Lahinch a couple of years ago? Must have mixed up the Screen name. Either that or you are not growing old with any grace whatsoever.

Pah! to you.

 

[Wapping]

rightly or wrongly, i can't help thinking that goodwill will be reduced by not having franchised dealer history no matter who the servicing mechanic (technician, pah!) used to work for.

Technician Pah! Hah! Why would he be a Technician whilst working in a main dealership but 'only' a mechanic if not? Have you seen his kit? More bloody computerised thingies than spanners I'll warant. Dont be such a pompous arrogant moron. Pay Dealer prices for servicing if you want (and I did, and I would, if only the bike came back in a safe state), but hey, dont diss the independent Techs that the rest of us rely on to make our bikes safe 24 hours after the main dealers servicing have left the bolts out of the rear brake calipers, not noticed that the bike was subject to a serious safety recall, not replaced the washers on the front brake disks, or after they semi severed the wiring loom shortcutting a clutch replacement etc etc et al.

I thought I met some bloke called Cookie on a meet once, Lahinch a couple of years ago? Must have mixed up the Screen name. Either that or you are not growing old with any grace whatsoever.

Pah! to you.

Whoa, slow down.

Cookie gave some quite good answers to Judge's questions (ie the probable reason why they failed (water ingress), the failure rate (two seemed high, but not an unknown fault) and volunteered a possible reason for BuMW's reluctance to meet the claim (lack of BuMW stamps in book).

Just before you jump to too many conclusions, the bike is 06, and it's out of warranty. Any gesture by BuMW is going to be out of goodwill, nothing more.

They will see that BuMW have made no money out of the services to date, so the customer has shown them no goodwill (he's not obliged to of course)....it makes no odds that the part is not a service item, either,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what goes around comes around.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Why the feck doesn't he learn to look in the well to check for excessive water and while he's at it how to change the fecking thing himself instead of standing around like a feckin Numpty for hours waiting for a recovery wagon or breakdown service

It's a plastic cover and 2 or 3 torx screws and 2 push release connectors My 12 year old daughter could change one of those! Fer Feck sake if he can wire a plug he should be able to do this instead of spitting the dummy and whinging about it!

My Advice "Build a Bridge and get over it!" 1200's have a couple of faults! They do break! They are not infallable and you do not have Charley and Ewans back up brigade at yer back tyre!

Carry the spares and learn what the bloody hell you have to do with them!"

i.e. Fuel pump relay, Keyfob receiver antenna, Whats the other one???

Lets be practical Folks leave out the leaking gearbox and drives you can usually nurse them home!

PS Does he have both keys on the one ring up by the ignition??? If he does He's Foolish thats just asking for a breakdown!

 

[Wapping]

A friend who doesn't do forums cos he works all hours owns and rides an '06 1200 ADV.

Twice now he has suffered a total power loss at speed on a motorway forcing him to get the bike over to the hard shoulder with only 'glider' controls to get him there.

After the last occasion and the same fault has been identified (fuel pump sensor) he is completely and utterly reluctant to get back on the bike and understandably so.

I'm guessing BMW are just replacing a part they KNOW to be faulty or prone to failure rather than fitting something which has been improved/revised to make for a safer part.

What he doesn't want to hear from his servicing dealer is "you do realise your bike is 1 month outside of its warranty and you haven't used BMW dealers for all your servicing" so you will be liable for the repairs and the recovery charge as your BMW assist also lapsed one month ago"

The bike has been serviced of late according to schedule by an independent mechanic and prior to that by BMW dealers.

So how common a problem are we talking here? And are people who experience this experiencing it at the side of the road or in mid-run

This is a serious request for user experiences so if the 11XX v 12XX brigade could leave their stones in the bar please. Thanks

Andy, it seems to be a problem, much for the reasons Cookie described. Though whether it's 1:10 or 1:100 OR 1:500 I doubt if anyone here could tell you.

Tell your mate to try a bit of goodwill from BuMW but don't hold your breath. The controllers are somewhere between £40 and £60 a pop, I get muddled up between them and the keyring thing, that seems to fizzle out. I am sure there is a thread about the price somewhere. Or PM Robin, he had one fitted not so long ago...better still call BuMW, they will know (inc and ex vat).

He will have saved at least that by going to a non-franchised service mechanic / technician / genius - or whatever people want to call them, so all's not lost.

 

[Wapping]

Why the feck doesn't he learn to look in the well to check for excessive water and while he's at it how to change the fecking thing himself instead of he one ring up by the ignition??? If he does He's Foolish thats just asking for a breakdown!

Such anger....

Is it an Irish thing?

 

[judge]

Andy, it seems to be a reasonably common problem, much for the reasons Cookie described.

Tell your mate to try a bit of goodwill from BuMW but don't hold your breath. The controllers are somewhere between £40 and £60 a pop, I get muddled up between them and the keyring thing, that seems to fizzle out. I am sure there is a thread somewhere about the price somewhere.

He will have saved at least that by going to a non-franchised service mechanic / technician / genius - or whatever people want to call them, so all's not lost.

Isn't the problem that goodwill or a shell-out he will be replacing a part that WILL fail again and how many times does an 'at speed' loss of power have to happen before you lose confidence.

As you say Richard it sounds VERY common so why not a modified part to overcome the cause rather than just offer another bung for the symptom?

And I guess I'm getting my answer because it seems people just accept it as part and parcel of ownership. Surely to goodness your own home brewed get you home mod speaks volume for acceptance and the warmth of its reception here also, whereas having a 'by proxy' moan and call for insight into a problem returns a bit of a flaming in here, I'm a bit puzzled to be honest

 

[DrFarkoff]

Such anger....

Is it an Irish thing?

Nope Just fed up with those that have been offended by their steel steed of the desert stopping when it gets wet!!!

Standing at the roadside wiping their poor wee red eyes on their touratwat sleeve!

Lets get real Here folks it really is not rocket science to change the feckin relay it takes about 5 minutes!

Maybe a wee tad longer for the antenna but it sure as hell beats standing in the rain or whatever waiting for the poor "assistance" bastard to come out in his 6 series to change it!

Anyone ever wondered why he looks a grumpy cnut!

 

[cookie]

Technician Pah! Hah! Why would he be a Technician whilst working in a main dealership but 'only' a mechanic if not? Have you seen his kit? More bloody computerised thingies than spanners I'll warant. Dont be such a pompous arrogant moron. Pay Dealer prices for servicing if you want (and I did, and I would, if only the bike came back in a safe state), but hey, dont diss the independent Techs that the rest of us rely on to make our bikes safe 24 hours after the main dealers servicing have left the bolts out of the rear brake calipers, not noticed that the bike was subject to a serious safety recall, not replaced the washers on the front brake disks, or after they semi severed the wiring loom shortcutting a clutch replacement etc etc et al.

I thought I met some bloke called Cookie on a meet once, Lahinch a couple of years ago? Must have mixed up the Screen name. Either that or you are not growing old with any grace whatsoever.

Pah! to you.

oh FFS!

pompous, arrogant moron i might be, but in this particular case you have either misread my post, or i haven't made myself clear

i was not "dissing" the independant techs. i just personally don't like the way mechanics, whether at main dealers or otherwise are now referred to as Technicians. i prefer to think of them as mechanics. it's good enough for me, it's good enough for them. i was actually sneering at the term *technician*. a term that often equates to "component changer" in my experience.

i only pay main dealer price 'cos the newish bike i presently own is under warranty, otherise i'd do it myself.
reading your list of calamities, makes me glad that my dealer has always made a good job of my bike. in fact, the only reason i bought a new bike at all, was because they seemed very competent with my friends bikes. for that reason, i wouldn't have bought it just anywhere.

anyway. the main point i was trying to make was that i consider it unreasonable to step outside the main dealer system when it suits you to save money, then expect the the dealer/manufacturer you have scorned to cough for repairs outside the warranty. i'd say fair enough if they pay anyway, but goodwill is just that.
you don't show much goodwill by going somewhere else, do you?

i know, under EU law servicing can be carried out by non franchised garages...blah blah...but back in the real world, do you actually expect that to endear you to the guy back at the main dealers trying to get that warranty, sorry, out of warranty claim accepted?

yeah right. dream on

yes i was at lahinch.

 

[Wapping]

Isn't the problem that goodwill or a shell-out he will be replacing a part that WILL fail again and how many times does an 'at speed' loss of power have to happen before you lose confidence.

As you say Richard it sounds VERY common so why not a modified part to overcome the cause rather than just offer another bung for the symptom?

And I guess I'm getting my answer because it seems people just accept it as part and parcel of ownership. Surely to goodness your own home brewed get you home mod speaks volume for acceptance and the warmth of its reception here also, whereas having a 'by proxy' moan and call for insight into a problem returns a bit of a flaming in here, I'm a bit puzzled to be honest

I made the workaround as I was bored and fancied making something for nothing, having got the piece from Robin.

Knock on wood, mine is fine. I think the corrosion comes inside the unit, not beneath, or BMW would need to replace the female socket on top of the fuel pump as well, which they don't. Being a failure inside a sealed unit, makes it difficult to tell if it's going to fail. You cannot take it apart to see or clean.

There is a thread somewhere about what's inside (circuit board I guess) and it having tuned to mush.

There have been no mass returns of bikes to BuMW, so your friend is probably very unlucky....he's had two go, I have had none. That's one each....in how many miles, I have done 22k on a June 06 GSA. However my final drive has gone south, just on Sunday, but being fixed as we speak. That seems to be another problem, along with dodgy ring antennae. Sometimes they all go, at once, or so some would have you believe....

It's no fun losing power on a motorway, no matter what sort of high speed, filter god you may be so I can well understand your chum's concerns. I would replace the part (trying BuMW's goodwill store, first) and keep going, the bike is (I assume) fine otherwise? Failing that, sell it here and buy a Honda.....they never fail (much).

 

[judge]

I don't wish to break up the party here and maybe this is some of my doing and somehow I've triggered out of character responses from some generally calm, rational, easy going good people but, this isn't about either:

1) Whether they are technicians, grease monkeys, engineers, mechanics or tea boys.

2) Whether this is a simple fix that anyone who didn't have their head up their arse should know their bike well enough to know what failed, carry the spare part or use their 'get out of jail/beam me up scotty/wipe my arse cos I paid £12 grand for a bike card. Though I'm impressed you could instinctively know when it will fail and show no cause for concern when during an overtaking manouver or navigating a challenging piece of roadway your bike suffers immediate and total loss of power

3) Whether he deserves a goodwill gesture from the manufacturer from whom he has witheld payment by electing to use a non-franchised service establishment, something which anyone is legally entitled to do and retain the full protection of a warranty.

It is about if you will allow, the very real experience of having two high speed failures both in motorway situations where he has suffered an immediate total loss of power only 6 months apart for the same reason each time, the first 'fixed' under warranty by a UK franchised BMW Motoradd Service Centre.

And what I am trying to ascertain by way of this excellent forum is just how uniquely 'lucky' has my friend been? The right answer being he is wholly unique, he can get it fixed, be a little wiser in ownership and save the bling and farkle money by having his bike looked after by the people who desgined and built it and remind himself once again what a cracking bike his 1200ADV is.

But right now he is nervous of it and has to look his young family in the eye when getting that bike out knowing of the experience he has had with it and how lucky he has been that his only worry is who is going to trouser up £60.

 

[Wapping]

And what I am trying to ascertain by way of this excellent forum is just how uniquely 'lucky' has my friend been?

Don't envy him his unpleasant loss of power on the superslab....

I think he's been unlucky, but I'm just an insurance clerk...and never win the lottery, so I'm unlucky, too.

Third time lucky for your pal....would be my bet.

May I have his old controller, or the plug underneath (leave as the wires long) preferably.