Version 9 prob

[GUZZZI]

Why when i created a new route from ancona to sienna in italy while sitting in pula Croatia does my 2610 show the route going all the way over northern italy and then when it gets to near ancona heads off towards sienna 25 miles short of ancona ???? Why doesnt it start where i set ??

 

[John Armstrong]

Have a look here: http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102090&highlight=croatia

 

[andyclift]

The link above goes back to my original post on version 9 problems in Eastern Europe.

I will precis the problem - and then the solution I have found.

The problem

Mapsource and the satnav has two types of map, a `basemap' and a `detail map'. When a low res view is used in Mapsource it is the `basemap' shown and as you zoom in its the detail map. All routes are calcluated using the detail map which until V9 made sense.

With V9 you have very limited detail maps of some Eastern European countries, unfortunately these maps actually show less roads than the basemap, although Garmin maintain they are more accurately shown. The result when viewing the map is that as you zoom in and go from basemap to detail map many roads disappear.

When you planned a route in V8 these countries had no detail map overlay so basemap roads were used. In V9 the inclusion of detail maps prevents basemap roads being used so the software comes up with stupid routes as the detail maps are not in fact very detailed.

The solution

In Mapsource its easy, run both V8 and V9 and when planning routes in the east use V8. On the satnav its a bit more involved. Use the Map settings menu to DISABLE the installed map. This only disables the detail maps leaving the basemap intact. Result - no detail maps available so routes will use basemap.

The only small snag is that you only seem to be able to search for places by name if they exist on the detail maps, so if you disable them you may need to scroll around the map to set destinations. Just use Mapsource to make all possible destinations into waypoints and load them into the gps before you go.

The good news for Garmin users is at least Garmin realise that Eastern Europe exists. On my wife's Tomtom most of Eastern Europe has no maps at all, although some are EU countries. Bit suprising when Gasrmin comes from the USA and Tomtom, Amsterdam.

 

[Happyhenry]

Geographical extent of the v9 problems?

I'm currently using v8 and although I ordered v9 in December last year, the DVD has never arrived. I wasn't bothered until I was coming back from Le Mans last Monday and tonking up the motorway when the GPS gave up and said that she couldn't help me with the route! the motorway is a couple of years old and runs parallel to the old road, so I guess 'Daphne' thought that I was ploughing through the fields. (I had this problem last summer when she kept asking me to take the next exit, go once around the roundabout and back on again - a pain when it's a paeage, it took me two goes before I worked out what was going on!).
So, chased up Garmin this morning and they have promised me a disc in the post in the next couple of days.
Then I read these posts and am having second thoughts.
Do the problems only affect Eastern Europe or do they have a bearing on 'old Europe' too?
Anyone know when is v10 due to be issued?

 

[andyclift]

The problem of limited `detail map' coverage only applies to Eastern Europe. All Western Europe near as damn it has 100% street level mapping. even with V9 though remember that by the time the maps have been surveyed, the software produced and ditributed, the maps are going to be a year or so out of date. V9 was completed in September 2006 so it is unlikely to inlcude any changes much after end of 2005. This is not a satnav problem, it could be even worse with paper maps.

 

[Happyhenry]

Thanks for that Andyclift. I may load v9, if it ever turns up, and then use your suggested work-around for Eastern Europe if needed, though most of my riding is likely to be in Western Europe. I notice that one of the advertised benefits of v9 is that it has complete mapping of Spain & Portugal - as opposed to limited coverage in v8.
You don't suppose that they've pulled the same stunt here with the 'detail map' coverage do you?
v10 will be along in a couple more years I guess?

 

[st13phil]

I notice that one of the advertised benefits of v9 is that it has complete mapping of Spain & Portugal - as opposed to limited coverage in v8.
You don't suppose that they've pulled the same stunt here with the 'detail map' coverage do you?

Although I haven't used v9 to actually navigate in Spain, I did use my copy of CN v9 to help a guy earlier this year who has CN v7 find a fair number of locations for a trip he was taking in Spain. CN v9 coverage seemed pretty complete and significantly better than v8 which I also have.

As an aside, I'd always wondered why the mapping of Spain is somewhat less than complete - even in the Michelin map series - until I spent some time working with a wise old Spaniard a couple of years ago. He explained that this was an ongoing legacy of the Franco regime which had kept all the detailed maps of the country as military property, and hence they weren't available to Joe Public until relatively recently. On that basis, I suspect that Navteq have had to do their own surveying of the road network rather than "buy in" accurate maps from another provider.

 

[andyclift]

He explained that this was an ongoing legacy of the Franco regime

It's easy to blame Garmin or Navteq when the maps aren't correct or limited but, to be fair to them, they are primarily digitising data from local sources so the satnav is only as good as the locally available paper maps.

UK satnav mapping is pretty good but the data comes from Ordnance Survey which has a reputation for some of the world's best mapping. Many other countries do not have such detaled mapping or, in some, detailed maps are considered of military significance and are not available to the general public.

Having let Garmin of the hook, it seems a mistake, as they have done in V9 to rely on `detail maps' that are worse than the `basemaps'. Maybe they should only include detail maps when they, as a minimum, cover all the roads on the basemap. Speaking to garmin about this, they told me that the detail maps are better, even when not comprehensive, as they can rely on the accuracy. What they have effectively acheived though, is to delete every road they have not confirmed as accurate. Personaly I would rather have all the roads shown and risk that some may be inaccurate rather than just delete them.

 

[st13phil]

Speaking to garmin about this, they told me that the detail maps are better, even when not comprehensive, as they can rely on the accuracy. What they have effectively acheived though, is to delete every road they have not confirmed as accurate. Personaly I would rather have all the roads shown and risk that some may be inaccurate rather than just delete them.

This is a real connundrum for a supplier like Garmin. Do you publish only "verified accurate" cartography, or do you publish a mixture of "verified accurate" and "believed correct" cartography? Seeing how congenitally dim much of the populace is when it comes to GPSR technology, as evidenced by the morons who drive onto railway tracks or the wrong way up a one-way street "because my Sat-Nav told me to", I suspect that Garmin and other GPSR suppliers are becoming scared of the liability issues and are heading in the "only verified accurate" cartography direction as fast as they can.

The trouble is, even in north-western Europe where mapping quality is generally very good, there are still very obvious errors in the Navteq mapping. Just drive around France for a bit, away from the Autoroutes and RN roads, if you want to see what I mean. I have often been "told" by my SP2720 to turn left or right into fields where, perhaps 50 or more years ago, there was a road but where now there very obviously isn't even a footpath, let alone track. And yes, I do have "avoid unpaved roads" set on, and no, I've never been daft enough to follow the instruction

So, where does that leave us? Well, Garmin's statement to Andy that "...the detail maps are better, even when not comprehensive, as they can rely on the accuracy" is obviously not strictly true, but may indicate where consumer GPSR cartography is headed. Personally, I too would prefer that all the roads were shown rather than just deleted but with the refinement that they could have an additional flag usable for routing purposes which allowed the avoidance of "unverified roads". That way, we have the choice whether or not to route using what Garmin obviously think of as "questionable" data.

 

[andyclift]

Nicely put.

I doubt it it would be beyond the means of Garmin's software programmers to add an option.

Use detail maps only - Use basemap only - use all available maps.

The technology of satnav is not perfect but its damned good and I wonder if my grandfather, if he was aroud today, could get his head around a little grey box on the handlebars that not only tells me where I am, to the nearest 10 metres, but can, within a few seconds, give me detailed instructions to just about anywhere in Europe. There are a lot of people involved in the process of mapping every road in Europe and translating that data into a system that bolts on the handlebars.

To the dickheads that drive up railway lines and the wrong way up one way streets, try to remember that its just a helpful tool and does not replace the mark 1 eyeball and brain.

 

[Happyhenry]

Loading v9 onto a 2820 FIX

Just bitten the bullet and gone from v8 to v9. What a pain! Mapsource loaded v9 fine onto my PC and unlocked OK. It started to load the 2820 before losing contact with it and leaving me with no detailed mapping at all on the gps.
Thought that selecting all the maps in Mapsource and transfering them would do the trick but it took over an hour for the files to be assembled and then, facing an estimated hour and a quarter map transfer, the thing fell over again at about 20% through! Uninstalled, rebooted, tried again - same result, gave up and went to bed.
Rang the UK helpdesk this morning and they told me not to bother with Mapsource at all, but to transfer the mapping direct - only way to do it . They emailed me a very clear work-through in .pdf and were really great.
Now have all Europe loaded and am a happyhenry again.
It seems that Mapsource is not very good at transfering maps.
If I knew how to attach a .pdf here I would do it, but if you need it either ring Garmin (0808 2380000) or send me a PM and I will forward it by email.

 

[andyclift]

Maybe I was lucky.

Just plugged the satav into a USB port, ran the disc, selected the update PC and satnav option and both Mapsource on the PC and V9 maps on the satnav updated.

 

[Happyhenry]

Maybe I was lucky.

Just plugged the satav into a USB port, ran the disc, selected the update PC and satnav option and both Mapsource on the PC and V9 maps on the satnav updated.

Perhaps the sun only shines on the righteous.

Can't upload the Garmin (unofficial?) pdf file as it is over the site limit for a pdf at 515KB is there a Moderator about who could lift the limit for this file as it is very useful??

In the meantime here is the text without the screen shots:


Loading Mapping onto a Nüvi, StreetPilot c5xx or 2820 or other ‘Mass Storage’ units.
1. Open ‘My Computer’
2. Right click the disc drive that has the update disc and select ‘Explore’
3. Go to the RGN folder.
4. If you would like to load the whole of Europe, open the ‘All’ folder.
5. If all of Europe will not fit, then you can use sections of Europe as detailed below. [NOTE from HH - 'All' will fit on a 2820]
However if your unit was preloaded with just UK and Ireland, then you will need to transfer UK and Ireland back onto the unit as there is not enough internal memory available for any other region. You can find the UK and Ireland mapping file by selecting the RGN file on the update DVD and clicking on the ‘ukireland’ file, you can then follow from step 6 below:
a. Region A - Europe North Central
b. Region B - Europe South West
c. Region C - Europe South Central
(All of the above regions are found in a sub folder found in the RGN folder of the DVD.)
6. Once you have found the desired file, minimize the current screen, open your unit in ‘My Computer’ and go to the ‘Garmin’ folder. [NOTE from HH - you need to have the 2820 in 'Mass Storage' mode - not 'Garmin' mode to see it as a drive in My Computer - choose this on the unit after you plug it in to the UBS port]
7. In here there will be several files, we are looking for the GMAPPROM.IMG file, once you have found this delete it by right clicking the item and then choosing DELETE from the menu. [NOTE: from HH - I was also told to delete a file called GMAPSUPP.IMG as it was a previous, failed attempt at loading by Mapsource]
8. After deleting the file, go back to the screen you minimized earlier, and drag the chosen RGN file to the Garmin folder on your unit and this will begin the transfer process. [NOTE from HH - takes about an hour to transfer]
How to unlock this mapping file to your unit
If you try and turn the unit on after transferring this file it will display the maps locked screen, to resolve this please do the following:
1. Go to ‘My Computer’ and select your unit
2. Once you have selected the unit go to the ‘Garmin’ folder.
3. Click options along the top toolbar of the open window, then select folder options. Once the box appears, select the VIEW tab along the top and un-tick the ‘Hide extensions for known file types’, then click OK.
4. Once you are back in the Garmin window you will need to right click the window and then choose NEW > Text Document:
5. Once you have the Text Document appear in the window you will need to name it: gmapprom.unl (you may need to remove the .TXT extension).
6. Once the file has been created, right click on it and choose open. A window will pop up asking you to choose the program to open the gmapprom.unl file, you will need to choose NOTEPAD and make sure the box at the bottom that says to always use this program for this file type is un-ticked and then click OK
7. You will then have an empty document open, in here you need to type your version 9 25 character unlock code all in lowercase and without spaces or ‘-‘. After entering this, save and close the document.
8. You can then unplug your unit and the mapping will be unlocked and ready to use with City Navigator Europe Version 9.


Good luck - I found it worked perfectly.

 

[andyclift]

Looking at these instructions it seems to be what the installer on the disc is supposed to do automatically.

My guess is that the failure of the installer is more to do with the PC than with the Garmin installer. Its not an unusual problem. With PCs being made up of different combinations of hardware, users adding their own hardware, various flavours of Windows which can be configured differently by the user, user installed software, some of which change system configurations without the user realising and may not be completely stable plus the need for anti-virus software which can be configured to stop just about anything working, it's amazing that computers work as well as they do.

On occasions I produce interactive CD ROMs for clients and it does not matter how much I test there always seems to be systems where the damned things won't run.

10/10 for Garmin for at least supplying a workaround.