Welding and Paint Spraying

[Dave T]

Not really bike related, but... theres an old fella by mine who drives a lovely split screen moggie minor (bought it new!! ), and as I have a 60's beetle and a 70's camper we got chatting about old cars.... Turns out this guy has a decent MIG welder and decent compressor/spray gear... which he's offered me free access to any time I want (he lives just round the corner from me) but I haven no idea how to use it!! I asked him if he'd mind teaching me how to weld / spray, but to his credit his response was 'no lad, far too busy!!!' - he has too many hobbies (hope I'm like this at his age!!!).

So...I've tried the local college for welding 'evening classes' but no joy, and similarly nothing doing for paint spraying, although I have another college or two yet to try. I don't want to do this as a career, but with two old cars (and a third on the way if I can sneak it past Emma ) it'd be great to be able to weld to MOT standard ,and get a passable finish on paint. Any suggestions on where else to look for tuition?

(Liverpool area if that helps).
Cheers,
Dave.

 

[Loiq]

there use to be a youth scheme run in our area where you could go and help out and while the kids are learning all about mechanics and all that stuff you could watch over their shoulders and join in as well be part of the team and all that. Run by the council....perhaps you got somehting like that near you?

 

[Phil Clarke]

Teach yourself. Mig welding is dead easy - just point and squirt. Get some scrap metal and have a shot. Try different thicknesses and pla around with the settings on the welder. Spraying is similarly easy - just fiddle with all the settings on the spray gun until it works.

However welding cars is a nightmare - trying to patch rusty metal will drive you mad as you constantly blow holes in what looks like good metal but in reality is rusting madly from the inside. Ask any half decent welder if they can fix your car and the answer will almost certainly be no way!

 

[PIGGLET]

Welding - teach yourself, as said above it's a piece o p!ss with a decent mig.
Watch someone who can weld to a good standard (and listen ) so you know what a good run should look and sound like.
Then just have a play. Depending on the complexity of the machine it's a case of setting the correct power for the gauge of metal then getting the feed speed right so you get a nice run with good penetration that sounds like sausages sizzling
As with most things the hard work is the prep. you want sound clean metal. Any rust patches and you'll get spatter and if it's thin, holes.
Buy a decent book on the subject and have a read too. That'll teach you the principles and theories, about gasses etc.
I served my time welding up old cars of various shapes and sizes and unless the whole thing is posh rotten, it can usually be repaired. The reason most people don't want to get involved is because it can turn out to be very involving
you cut a bit away and find you need to cut a bit more away, repeat infinitum and thats before you've stripped all the combustible trim out of the way.
Take you time and work methodically. The older the car the easier they are to repai as a rule as the shapes are less complex (unless you intend to have a go at something particulary exotic which wouldn't recomend to start with ) and the steel is usually of a thicker gauge.

 

[KMD]

I have an excellent VHS video on 'How to' Mig weld. It really is an idiots guide and very thorough and detailed. I don't have facilities to copy it, but you're welcome to a loan of it if you wish.

 

[Bronco Billy]

One word of advice ...........

Always aim for good penetration ......

Oops thats five words ...

 

[scots_jon]

I would not agree that spraying is easy. Although it does depend on your expectations. If you just want to get good paint overage and a finish that isn't offensively bad then you can probably teach yourself by experimenting. If you are willing to put enough effort into cutting back the result you can also improve it.

If you want to get a good finish straight out of the gun and a generally pleasing result then you will find it much easier if you have some basic training in what to do and how to spot and rectify common flaws.

I did my paint training as an evening class at the motor vehicle section of Stevenson College in Edinburgh, but I'm sure that there should be similar courses near you. Try searching for "vocational training" rather then "evening class". Good luck!

 

[PIGGLET]

Forgot to say, it doesn't take much to weld to MOT standard. As long as the tester can't poke his little plastic hammer through it and it "appears" to be properly attached with no sharp edges he'll be happy. The amount of bodged motors that we used to see that had been "crow shitted up" by a cowboy, smothered in underseal then passed an MOT was always a source of amazement / amusement
Customers could often get quite lively when we informed them it would take a weeks work and a large quantity of steel to sort their car after they'd recently spent a good few hundred quid on getting it "repaired"

 

[iletts]

there is no such thing as 'welding to mot standard', as the only inspection given is visual and a poke to check that it is a continual weld. welding standards are prescribed by institutions such as TWI and Lloyds, where procedures and testing (non destructive and destructive) are clearly defined. whilst I agree that any monkey can pick up a modern mig/tig/mma/inverter set and produce a weld, there is no guarantee of it's quality or strength. that can only be achieved by a recognised apprenticeship and the various types of testing. beware if you want to attempt structural welds!!

 

[NeverRodeBefore]

Ahh, TWI or WJS as it once was?

I can weld, but I tend to be a bit rough on the finish, but nothing that an angle grinder can't sort out?

I was a member of 'The Welding Institute' for a good few years... before I could weld! I could tell someone how to do it, what it should look like, what the metallurgy should be, and even if they were doing it wrong... I just couldn't do it myself

I eventually went to evening school for MIG/MMA and found the vertical vee joint to be the worst... Christmas tree anyone?

It's easier to weld with a decent machine. If you intend to do it outdoors, then you may want to consider a 'no-gas' set. You will not get as good a finish as with a conventional gas shroud, but it's more tolerant of any breeze.

Never tried spraying myself as I got my Dad to repaint the landy... which was brush painted, but my Dad had trained as a Coach painter

 

[Losttheplot]

From my limited experience of spraying, the quality of the end result is usually down to all the effort that goes into rubbing down, prepping and stopping, before you even pick up the spray gun, though messing around with the gun to suss out how it works first is probably a good idea....

As for welding, haynes do basic book on welding, which isn't to bad (though i confess i haven't read the MIG section to it) , if you can't get anyone to show you, do some reading on it and practice. Though make sure the steel is clean, as any experimentation will be void, and also if the steel's really rusty you'll find you end up with molten lumps going down your back and your boots, which isn't particulary appealing..

Hope this makes sense...

nathan

 

[Losttheplot]

I should also add...underseal will cover a multitude of sins, as long a you can stick the patch on so it stays on, plaster plenty of the aforementioned black sticky stuff over it and bobs your dad's brother....

 

[SteveSandberg]

So...I've tried the local college for welding 'evening classes' but no joy, and similarly nothing doing for paint spraying, although I have another college or two yet to try.

The evening school is very comfortable. In the morning I have classes from 14:00 to 20:00 I study here. We have part-time education, we study for a month, the other month no. Teachers are very attentive, much more attentive than in day school.
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