Exactly what they teach, they give you additional tools to add to your bag of riding tricks and try to get you to think about your riding continuously, something many people seemed to have stopped doing when they threw away their L-plates.
Why you should NEVER use the rear brake!
- Thread starter Rusape
- Start date
Exactly what they teach, they give you additional tools to add to your bag of riding tricks and try to get you to think about your riding continuously, something many people seemed to have stopped doing when they threw away their L-plates.
There are times i cringe when hearing from a third party what i (allegedly) said to a 'Client' when training them.
There's many a slip betwixt cup and lip.
Unless it's from the horses mouth - ignore it.
There's many a slip betwixt cup and lip.
Unless it's from the horses mouth - ignore it.
Common sense innit
Therein lies the problem.
It's an increasingly absent commodity in a lot of people these days.
I use the rear brake often - depends on the circumstances.
I wouldn't profess to be any sort of 'instinctive' rider but I don't tend to think about how I brake, I just do it and it's different all the time. For example, a few days ago descending a series of steep switchback hairpins on a gravelly, wet single track in Scotland I found myself staying well off the front brake
So when he slightly over-cooks a wheely, he reaches for the front brake instead?
I'd pay money to watch that one.....I find the rear very useful for slow speed work (under 5mph) where i have to get the bike around or between tight testicles. I find i have enough to think about on the bars with throttle and clutch and pointing the bike where it needs to go, to even consider using the front brake as well (i'm not that clever). It also makes the bike feel a lot more stable, (though not so much an issue with a GS), as it doesn't make the front end dive, and the rear doesn't tend to be so "grabby" as the front...
Wassted
Registered user
Well Foggy once said "I never use the back brake, if not for the rules we would remove it to save weight". OK that may not be exactly what he said but he did say "I never use the back brake". So that's at least one world champ.
Reckon the rest is pure BS though.
Unlike Foggy I do use my back brake but only during slow speed manovers when playing the clutch & throttle.
Makes one wonder how that guy does hill starts?
Wassted
Registered user
Come to think of it Foggy could talk shite as well
bumpmuncher
Registered user
So when he slightly over-cooks a wheely, he reaches for the front brake instead?
I find the rear very useful for slow speed work (under 5mph) where i have to get the bike around or between tight testicles. I find i have enough to think about on the bars with throttle and clutch and pointing the bike where it needs to go, to even consider using the front brake as well (i'm not that clever). It also makes the bike feel a lot more stable, (though not so much an issue with a GS), as it doesn't make the front end dive, and the rear doesn't tend to be so "grabby" as the front...
yup nail head
You can hold a bike on the front brake and use the throttle at the same time you know?
........
Just because you teach something doesn't mean everyone will learn
J.
Recently attended MC1 and 2 (looking forward to MC3 and possibly MC4). Couldn't stop smiling reading the thread, the latter part of the first day (MC1) is spent trailing the back brake and observing others doin' it (the only bit I was good at)
MC2's off road, can't remember touching any brake, just enjoyed flying through the mud on a KTM400!!!!
Joking apart, I'd done 23000 miles on the back of a CBT, I'd still apply 'common sense' with regard to any training. I'd also apply 'common sense' to any half cock story I heard about it
Mutley
Registered user
What to do when a corner 'unecpectadly' tightens up on you
Corners don't 'tighten up', people misjudged them. The number of times you hear bikers say a corner has tightened up on them. In 27 years a corner has never moved while I've been riding it
Misjudged plenty though
Unfortunately for some, not you it seems, some corners do indeed "tighten up" on you.
It's called a decreasing radius corner.
The UK doesn't have many, but they are out there.
But yes, even on a DR corner the only time it will be an issue is if you have misread it.
good'oleboy
Registered user
With any corner, just this. Slow in, fast out, Fast in shit out. If you cannot stop within the vanishing point or limit point as some say. Then you are to fast on the approach. By the way i2i traing is not about not using the back ever it is all about gyroscopic forces. I'm not going to get embroilled with what is supposed to work and what is'nt. What I will inform people of though is the course talks about why you don't need to use the rear on every occasion. Give Tom a call and book it for yourself. Don't care how good you are, you will learn that most of the stuff we have been told we should do, we really should not. A motorcyle is an extremely stable piece of engineering, it's riders who make it unstable. On the course I learnt a lot of what you should not do and it works, BECAUSE he proves it. Plus great fun. Done it yesterday as amatter of fact.
good'oleboy
Registered user
Racers use different methods to us mere road riders. They use their brakes when most of us would shit ourselves. By the way the yanks race Goldwings in the states. Bet that track is covered in plastic and ally.
Thanks for that amazing revelation.
None of that is relevant to the fact there is such a thing as a decreasing radius corner though.
Riding that way just enables you to deal with one....
Sigh ..... my last crash (a good few years ago I hasten to add..) was on the road between Stourmont and Spa. I knew I was going a bit too quick but arrogantly thought 'oh well hey ho, it'll be no problem'
It turned out to be the mother of all DR turns. Tighter and tighter ... I completely miss-read it, ran out of ground clearance and ran wider and wider into the armco on the other side of the road.
I can still hear the scraping of metal and plastic. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The stuff of nightmares !!
It turned out to be the mother of all DR turns. Tighter and tighter ... I completely miss-read it, ran out of ground clearance and ran wider and wider into the armco on the other side of the road
.I can still hear the scraping of metal and plastic. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. The stuff of nightmares !!
andyclift
Registered user
One point missed is that I believe that, like cars, motorcycles must have two independent means of braking. On a car this is the footbrake and handbrake - although the handbrake is a pretty useless to stop a moving vehicle. On a bike it is front and rear - although the rear on its own is also pretty useless.
Although some manufacturers, including BMW, have linked brake systems they still have the ability to separately control front a rear to comply with the law.
On my GSA I had almost forgotten what the rear pedal was for but as the bike has ben laid up for a few weeks I have been using my wife's CS. No linked brakes and soft dive prone front suspension. Coming down the steep hill to my house on a gravelly unmade road I soon remembered the rear was there for a reason.
Although some manufacturers, including BMW, have linked brake systems they still have the ability to separately control front a rear to comply with the law.
On my GSA I had almost forgotten what the rear pedal was for but as the bike has ben laid up for a few weeks I have been using my wife's CS. No linked brakes and soft dive prone front suspension. Coming down the steep hill to my house on a gravelly unmade road I soon remembered the rear was there for a reason.
Ha, ha.... i have just spotted this thread.... The "don't use your rear brake" stuff is a bit crap... I taught for years and have ridden for a quite a few longer and both brakes are very important.
Not to repeat all of the points above, it is best not to get big assumptions stuck in your head especially if you haven't to many miles under your belt. Always best to understand why you do something as well.
Balanced braking, slow speed control, control entering corners, holding it on a hill, tight filtering etc, etc. Just some of the reasons you can use your rear brake.
Also best not to believe everything that the Police, the IAM, etc, etc preach about bikes. There's plenty of folk that "talk the talk"... Experience is what matters and a brain in your head to work things out
PS Decreasing radius bends are still in evidence on many older motorway slips, that is why they catch bikers out.
PPS Trials riding was a cracking way to learn about how many different ways to use your brakes)
Not to repeat all of the points above, it is best not to get big assumptions stuck in your head especially if you haven't to many miles under your belt. Always best to understand why you do something as well.
Balanced braking, slow speed control, control entering corners, holding it on a hill, tight filtering etc, etc. Just some of the reasons you can use your rear brake.
Also best not to believe everything that the Police, the IAM, etc, etc preach about bikes. There's plenty of folk that "talk the talk"... Experience is what matters and a brain in your head to work things out
PS Decreasing radius bends are still in evidence on many older motorway slips, that is why they catch bikers out.
PPS Trials riding was a cracking way to learn about how many different ways to use your brakes
)
good'oleboy
Registered user
Thanks for that amazing revelation.
None of that is relevant to the fact there is such a thing as a decreasing radius corner though.
Riding that way just enables you to deal with one....
well thanks for the info AGAIN Adam. I guess thats why people keep crashing on them .
